Posts by HereIam60

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

Can recall, probably late 1980s doing a long street of door-to-door work with a brother, not getting much response. As we walked along he said "Y'know, someday we're going to be coming back to these same houses and saying " Too bad guys, you had your chance!"

I was pretty shy, but appalled by this, I stopped walking and said, "Well, if we do, I don't think we'll say it like that..". He seemed genuinely surprised and asked how I thought we would do it. I said " I don't know, but the scriptures tell us to make a defense with a mild temper and deep respect, and I don't think "Ha Ha guys, it's too late" qualifies. He agreed and we went on. I could never see what purpose a hailstone judgement message would serve and it seemed at odds with the message of good news of peace, hope, love and salvation we were supposed to be carrying.

In those days though there was also much talk of "a warning work", " marking people for survival", and "seperating the sheep from the goats".

I've also read in some comments on forums how some Witnesses in service would say of a house they admired, that they would have, or take it after Armageddon. In my experience I never heard anyone say that. ( I always thought nothing would be left standing after Armageddon!), but sometimes if someone had a bad experience at the door of a large upscale, well kept house and grounds they might return to the car group and say resentfully " Well....They're having Their Paradise Now!!"

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

They have gone back and forth repeatedly over the years, trotting out this "judgement message" stuff, then letting it fade. In the late 80s, possibly after convention talks a number of people in our congregation were making statements such as "One day 'The Society" will announce that the preaching work is finished!" and "One day our message will change from one of Good News to one of Judgement!"

Then for years after there was a Public Talk Outline, (and sorry I don't know the title, but I heard the talk numerous times) which stated "The Preaching Work will Not stop..." and " Our message will Not change!"

I think this came up again each time we studied the 'Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand' book because of the prophecy about the great hailstones falling (Rev. 16:21)

More recently it came up again in regard to those Convention videos that came to be known as "The Bunker" videos, with a group of Witnesses hiding in a basement sharing experiences. One brother was said to have fallen away "when our message changed"...

There's no consistent view of anything....if there ever was....

5

New light on when the ministry will end

by JohnR1975 in

have you seen the new questions from readers about when the ministry will end?.

it's a new thought.. new light 🤣😭.

HereIam60

Again the scripture at Revelation 16:21 says the hailstones fall lfrom Heaven, suggesting (at least as I read it) that it is Jehovah's own action or judgement, rather than verbal messages delivered on earth..?

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

...So there is an end...and a "final" end...and Revelation 16:21 clearly says the hailstones fall from Heaven, or in some translations "the sky", wouldn't this suggest an action of God himself rather than a human endeavor?

51

You Could Be Stuck in a University When Your Parent Dies. Convention Day 2 Video

by liam in

the governing body is going all out at this years convention.

they are still discouraging university education.

i guess the end must be real close .

HereIam60

slimboyfat,

"...a pivot that downgrades end-time expectations..."

That's a dilemma they have created themselves. It was much easier to accept some things Watchtower taught and said when it was believed that the end would be quickly upon us, or as was often said "imminent".

In recent years a very mixed message is presented. We're urged to maintain the sense of Urgency to act before it is " too late", yet as time continues to pass, and leadership makes long -range building and expansion plans, the mind-set being promoted is "Be prepared....but if the end has not come yet...or when we expected...it does not matter...we must go on as we have been doing.."

They've revived the old saying "We must not serve with a date in mind...". Recent video dramatizations have depicted witnesses who were 'stumbled' because their expectations were not fufilled (veiled reference to 1975 era), and their questions are seen as being discouraging, a bad example, and " spiritually weak".

A study article " Enjoy a Hope Without Disappointment" in the December 2023 Watchtower featured a picture of F. W. Franz.. (first reference to him in numerous years)..and the text attributed a 1991 quote to him "...[We] have not lost our sense of the value of that hope...We are appreciating it all the more the longer we have to wait for it. It is something worth waiting for, even if it required a million years..."

Possibly one, of many, reasons for Anthony Morris III's departure, could have been the talk he gave referencing past expectations. He related how during the 1970s, he said possibly '75, after a gathering at which some older ones told his sons they probably would not finish school before the end of this system of things, on the way home his boys questioned him about it. He said (I'm paraphrasing to the best of my recall..) " Boys, you've got to keep on the watch... This thing could go on until 2020!" ...then to his audience "Honest!". He then went on to chastise.." Some of you older ones who said such things....You didn't do anyone any favors! But Jehovah still loves you...!" Certainly this was frank and open, but that a Governing Body member would admit he had doubts about the prevailing opinions of the time must have disturbed some of the others...

6

Letter of Disassociation to Former Religions / Baptism Questions ?

by HereIam60 in

this was prompted by some comments in another thread, but since it was somewhat "off" the original topic, i'm posting/asking seperately.... i was born in 1960, and baptized as a infant in a catholic church.

obviously i have no personal memory of this, and only know, because i was told, and we had a family photo of my parents holding me before the baptismal font while the priest prepared to do the sprinkling.

i was taken probably no more than 3 times to the catholic church in my early childhood and had no clue as to what was going on.. from the ages of 10 to 12 i attended a methodist sunday school, rarely the actual church service, but sang with the class in an annual christmas presentation in the church.. in the 1980s, studying with jehovah's witnesses, and considering baptism, i was told i had to write a letter to any religious group i had previously been involved with, stating i no longer wished any contact, wanted to be removed from their membership lists and witnessing as to why...(separation from satan's world, false religion, babylon etc.).

HereIam60

Dear Blondie,

Thank you for responding, and referencing the 1956 and 1989 Watchtower articles. It is appreciated. I see that by '89 the part about 'in association with the spirit directed organization" had been added. I will continue to research as I'm sure I've seen somewhere online a timeline of how the day of baptism questions changed over the years.

I never believed I was baptized into any 'Organization'. In fact from the very beginning the overuse of that word by some Witnesses grated on me. It seemed 'worldly' and opposed to what I was being taught, as the world we were supposed to be no part of, was filled with organizations.

The United Natiions Organization was said to be "a counterfeit of God's Kingdom", and " The Disgusting Thing that causes Desolation, prophesied by Daniel". The World Health Organization, and North Atlantic Treaty Organization were man-made attempts to solve problems that left God out of the picture and could not succeed. Also, in my background "The Organization" also referred to The Mafia!

The only way I could accept it at all was to re-define it in my own mind. That 'Jehovah's Organization' was His Arrangement of things on Heaven and Earth, but solely His, in his physical creation, and spiritually. It had nothing to do with any group or corporation of humans. Perhaps that was the original intent of the term.

I can understand how an adult, baptized in one religious group by conscious choice, upon deciding to change affiliations, might need to be baptized again in their new faith group, but since Watchtower teaching is that infant baptism is unscriptural and invalid, and an infant has no choice or understanding of the matter, I still cannot see why a letter of disassociation to the church where it was done is necessary.

Maybe this is no longer required, and in any event in my case is water that long ago went under the bridge. I'm just trying to sort out some thoughts that have long been in the back of my mind.

23

Babylon The Great

by EisMe in

babylon the great: a prophetic warning.

babylon the great is not just a city—it is the system that governs the world economy.

this was god's first judgment against economic babylon, but it would not be his last.. the three parts of babylon's economy.

HereIam60

Well, I don't know about all that...but when I originally studied with Witnesses, it was strongly emphasized that Babylon the Great was the World Empire of False Religion, and was intertwined with the other parts of Satan's world, The Commercial/Financial/Business System, and the Political system, and if we had any ties to or involvement in them whatsoever, when their End came, ours would too! I hardly think that the Watchtower leadership has ever lived up to this belief.

6

Letter of Disassociation to Former Religions / Baptism Questions ?

by HereIam60 in

this was prompted by some comments in another thread, but since it was somewhat "off" the original topic, i'm posting/asking seperately.... i was born in 1960, and baptized as a infant in a catholic church.

obviously i have no personal memory of this, and only know, because i was told, and we had a family photo of my parents holding me before the baptismal font while the priest prepared to do the sprinkling.

i was taken probably no more than 3 times to the catholic church in my early childhood and had no clue as to what was going on.. from the ages of 10 to 12 i attended a methodist sunday school, rarely the actual church service, but sang with the class in an annual christmas presentation in the church.. in the 1980s, studying with jehovah's witnesses, and considering baptism, i was told i had to write a letter to any religious group i had previously been involved with, stating i no longer wished any contact, wanted to be removed from their membership lists and witnessing as to why...(separation from satan's world, false religion, babylon etc.).

HereIam60

This was prompted by some comments in another thread, but since it was somewhat "off" the original topic, I'm posting/asking seperately...

I was born in 1960, and baptized as a infant in a Catholic Church. Obviously I have no personal memory of this, and only know, because I was told, and we had a family photo of my parents holding me before the baptismal font while the priest prepared to do the sprinkling. I was taken probably no more than 3 times to the Catholic church in my early childhood and had no clue as to what was going on.

From the ages of 10 to 12 I attended a Methodist Sunday School, rarely the actual church service, but sang with the class in an annual Christmas presentation in the church.

In the 1980s, studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, and considering baptism, I was told I had to write a letter to any religious group I had previously been involved with, stating I no longer wished any contact, wanted to be removed from their membership lists and witnessing as to why...(Separation from Satan's world, false religion, Babylon etc.)

While I could somewhat see doing this regarding the Methodist church, as I had been in regular attendance for a time, and participated in services - though never baptized into it, I did not see why I should have to do so with the Catholic Church as my involvement there was not under my control, and my presence there could not have been considered worship.

My 'study conductor' however was adamant that this MUST be done. So, though annoyed I eventually, reluctantly, wrote and sent the letters, and I'm sure the only notice given them was to be dropped into a wastebasket.

Eventually I went over, with Elders, the long list of questions for persons desiring to be baptized as JW, which must have included, Had I cut all ties with False Religion?, and was approved. Until recently, when I asked an elder to look it up, I could not clearly recall the date of my baptism...

It was in February 1987. Can anyone tell me, or, point me to a source, as to what questions were being asked on the day of baptism, prior to water immersion in that year?

I know eventually these included "Do you recognize that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, in association with His Spirit Directed Organization ?". I do not know if I was asked this. I considered it only as a dedication of my life to Jehovah God in obedience to Jesus Christ.

I have never understood the 'legal ramifications" of a religious baptism. Is it entirely choice or voluntary, or actually legally "binding" one to a Church or Organization ?

Thanks!

51

You Could Be Stuck in a University When Your Parent Dies. Convention Day 2 Video

by liam in

the governing body is going all out at this years convention.

they are still discouraging university education.

i guess the end must be real close .

HereIam60

I think in a few cases long-tine, full-time servants are helped to go home in the event of a serious need, or death, but it probably depends on who you are. The sad thing is that there have been numerous talks asking Bethelites, Missionaries etc if it is really necessary to leave their 'assignment' to care for parents if there are Other Family Members who can do it!. One could be "stuck" in the assignment as well.

Of late they haven't even been pitching the preaching full time as the focus. It's all construction, of the "thousands" of Kingdom Halls and other buildings, they supposedly "need"...and for what?

45

The pope's cousin is a JW

by loosie in

.

sorry i can't get the file attachment to work

HereIam60

I guess my 'wake up call' here is to be more observant of what I'm reading...did not see at first this thread was started 20 years ago!

I have , in the past , heard householders say they "admire" what the witnesses were doing (the preaching) so it's not totally impossible that he made some complimentary remark. I just question it as it was stated in the quoted article.

Erroneous and mistaken things are often published. Years ago a sweet elderly sister in the congregation was approaching her 100th birthday. She was interviewed for the local paper. The reporter asked her for her memories regarding certain historical events. He asked if she remembered the sinking of the Titanic. She said something like 'Oh yes, that was a terrible tragedy. So many people couldn't be saved..". When printed, the article said she was a Titanic survivor. I said excitedly to an elder "I didn't know Jessie had been on the Titanic!!" He said "She wasn't. The reporter misunderstood what she said.."