Posts by plmkrzy

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

plmkrzy

Thirdwitness:
:Luke 17 offers a parallel of Matthew 24. An examination of it will reveal the true meaning of parousia.

Luke 17:26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.

:Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'.

:The days of Noah was a time when people were carrying on the everyday affairs of life and took no note of their impending destruction. They took no note of what Noah was saying and doing.

:Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'.

There is nothing in those verses that say anything other then what people would be behaving like. Nowhere does it even lead the reader to believe that one time frame would have anything to do with another. ONLY what the atmosphere would be like. Is Jehovah going to flood the earth again just as it occurred in the days of Noah?

:Lets compare this scripture to Luke 17:26,27.

Luke: Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah,
Matt: For just as the days of Noah were

Luke:so it will be also in the days of the Son of man:
Matt:so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Luke: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage,
Matt: For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage,

Luke: until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.
Matt: 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away,

:The sentences are virtually the same, almost identical with one notable exception. Luke says 'the days of the Son of man' but Matthew says 'presence of the Son of man'. What can we surmise from this?

What can we surmise from this?

Matt comes before Luke so the days of the son of man in Luke were in the presence of the days of the son of man in Matt. Luke is in the presence of Matt. Don't eeven say well that silly.

:The 'days of the Son of man' = the 'presence of the Son of man'.

:And both equal the days of Noah when people were living their everyday life taking no note of what Jehovah's servants were doing and saying. Then the flood came and swept them all away. A time period that lasted over 100 years.

And both equal??

They “WERE LIKE” Not equal. That’s what I read anyway but I’m no scholar…just a meek person.

The days or presence of the Son of man is not just paralleled by the period when the flood actually swept them all away. The days or parousia of Jesus is paralleled by the days of Noah before the flood also when they were taking no note of what was to come upon them. The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival.

I have no agenda other then to make some sense of what I read from whom ever I am reading. If thirdwitness posts things that make sense then WONDERFUL, but this IMHO makes absolutely no sense at all. The scriptures have been “ADDED TO” and you’re not supposed to do that, remember? Thirdwitness you have put meanings into these scriptures that just aren’t there.

The days that someone is present

I didn’t read that anywhere .

The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival.

The days of a presence however does include “IN SIGHT OF”

Plm

AlanF
I don't know of any. They're right scholarly books and as such, generally are not online. However, I found a website that has some online references: http://www.greek-language.com/lexical.aids/

Thanks. The more I try to research on line the more frustrating it gets swimming through all the religious websites to get to something real.

plm

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

plmkrzy

jayhawk sorry about the tiny tiny print. It wasn't tiny on my laptop, 12 font, don't know what happened.

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results

Result of search for "Parousia":

3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--coming, presence.

Result of search for "presence":

561. apenanti ap-en'-an-tee from 575 and 1725; from in front, i.e. opposite, before or against:--before, contrary, over against, in the presence of.

1715. emprosthen em'-pros-then from 1722 and 4314; in front of (in place (literally or figuratively) or time):--against, at, before, (in presence, sight) of.

1725. enanti en'-an-tee from 1722 and 473; in front (i.e. figuratively, presence) of:--before.

1726. enantion en-an-tee'-on neuter of 1727; (adverbially) in the presence (view) of:--before, in the presence of.

1799. enopion en-o'-pee-on neuter of a compound of 1722 and a derivative of 3700; in the face of (literally or figuratively):--before, in the presence (sight) of, to.

2714. katenopion kat-en-o'-pee-on from 2596 and 1799; directly in front of:--before (the presence of), in the sight of.

3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--coming, presence.

4383. prosopon pros'-o-pon from 4314 and ops (the visage, from 3700); the front (as being towards view), i.e. the countenance, aspect, appearance, surface; by implication, presence, person:--(outward) appearance, X before, countenance, face, fashion, (men's) person, presence.

Result of search for "erchomai":

2064. erchomai er'-khom-ahee middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred (middle voice) eleuthomai el-yoo'-thom-ahee, or (active) eltho el'-tho, which do not otherwise occur) to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively):--accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

Strong's Number: 2064

eµrxomai

Original Word

Word Origin

eµrxomai

middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] eleuthomai {el-yoo'-thom-ahee}, or [active] eltho {el'-tho}, which do not otherwise occur)

Transliterated Word

Phonetic Spelling

Erchomai

er'-khom-ahee

Parts of Speech

TDNT

Verb

2:666,257

Definition

to come

of persons

to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving
to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

metaph.

to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto

to go, to follow one

Translated Words

KJV (27) - come, 1; go, 13; misc, 13;

NAS (635) - arrival, 1; arrived, 1; brought, 1; came, 225; come, 222; comes, 64; coming, 87; entered, 2; expected, 3; fall, 2; falls, 1; give, 1; go, 1; going, 2; grown, 1; lighting, 1; next, 1; turned, 1; went, 18;

Verse Count

KJV

NAS

Matthew	113
Mark	80
Luke	96
John	142
Acts	54
Romans	10
1 Corinthians	15
2 Corinthians	16
Galatians	7
Ephesians	2
Philippians	3
Colossians	2
1 Thessalonians	4
2 Thessalonians	2
1 Timothy	4
2 Timothy	4
Titus	1
Hebrews	5
2 Peter	1
1 John	4
2 John	3
3 John	2
Jude	1
Revelation	33

Matthew	108
Mark	83
Luke	98
John	141
Acts	53
Romans	9
1 Corinthians	15
2 Corinthians	16
Galatians	7
Ephesians	2
Philippians	3
Colossians	2
1 Thessalonians	4
2 Thessalonians	2
1 Timothy	4
2 Timothy	4
Titus	1
Hebrews	5
2 Peter	1
1 John	4
2 John	2
3 John	2
Jude	1
Revelation	32

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

plmkrzy

AD- attention deficit

15

He says use the rod?

by beautifulisfree in

has your child raising or discipline tatics changed since your out of the borg?

i always thought that i would use spanking as a discipline.

since supposedly the bible encourages it.

plmkrzy

Proverbs 13:24 (New International Version)

24 He who spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

A brother gave a talk on a similar subject many years ago when spankings were abundant in my congregation and the brother giving the talk actually used the scripture that say's: spare the rod and spoil the child in it's proper context. I think it MAY have helped a few kids escape from those bathroom and parking lot beatings.

Other words he used to define the verse: firm, strong, steadfast,

When you tell a child there will be consequences…mean it, don’t wimp out on your own discipline.

A rod is not exactly something that flip-flops about.

It should be SOooo obvious what that scripture is saying.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

plmkrzy

What is the meaning of parousia in Matthew 24:3

Alanf: While the root meaning of parousia is "presence" (literally, "a being alongside"), it can also mean "coming," "arrival," "advent," "appearing," (see footnote 1 for this paragraph) and is often used that way in Greek literature. Parousia often has the flavor of both "presence" and "arrival". It is not just the moment of arrival, but a presence extending from the arrival onward.
Footnote 1 for above paragraph:
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker, Second Edition (BAGD), Univ. of Chicago Press, 1979, p. 629; Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Baker Book House, 1977, p. 490; The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, ed. by Harold K. Moulton, Zondervan, 1978, p. 307; A Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell and Scott, Oxford, 1976, p. 1343; The New Englishman’s Greek Concordance and Lexicon, Wigram-Green, Hendrickson Publishers, 1982, p. 680; Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. 3, Balz & Schneider, Eerdman’s, 1993, p. 43; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Kittel and Friedrich, Vol. V, Eerdmans, 1967, p. 859.

Is there by chance a website where these books can be referenced without having to purchase all of them? I’ve been following these debates, while attempting to collect info for myself, and the best reference I have been able to find on line is:

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results

Result of search for "Parousia":

3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--coming, presence.