Posts by Celestial

61

Watchtower's United Nations Association

by Celestial in

temporarily, there's confusion until i get the facts straight: .

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php .

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/default.html .

Celestial

Vidqun, as for an inappropriate religious/political connotation, it took me thirty minutes of internet research and an apt comparison of religious and political involvement, considering what most people have been exposed to (what I have been exposed to), to tell different stories.

When it comes to political meddling by religious organizations, you have:

Exhibit A
A DPI application that takes fifteen minutes for a non-government organization (NGO) to fill out, that allows an organization access to scientific, social and political research.

http://www.un.org/wcm/content/site/dpingorelations/home/join/pid/8218

Exhibit B

A much more involved application process that requires two years experience as a DPI NGO and a current political (democratic decision making mechanism) agenda.

http://csonet.org/index.php?menu=34

United Nations: Civil Society Participation – Application for Consultative Status (ECOSOC)

Among other requirements for obtaining consultative status are the following:

Applying organization's activities must be relevant to the work of ECOSOC;

The NGO must have been in existence (officially registered) for at least 2 years in order to apply;

The NGO must have a democratic decision making mechanism;

You have the logistics that bind Exhibit A and B to certain political agendas according to the UN charter. The Watchtower society applied as a member of the United Nations Department of Public Information (DPI).
Exhibit C

The political agendas of mainstream Christian organizations that have the intent of transforming western civilization, primarily the United States into a political theocracy.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/christians-in-politics.aspx

Christians in Politics - Focus on the Family

Christian Activism

Have you ever wondered why Focus on the Family encourages its friends to be involved in the culture around them as part of their faith? How being involved in biblical citizenship is part of living our lives as “salt and light” to the world around us?

Or have you wondered if it’s even appropriate or legal for Christian beliefs to help shape our government and policies?

Our country offers us many benefits and blessings – and two of those are our Christian heritage and the invitation and duty for “We the People” to be actively involved in our system of government.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/christians-in-politics/biblical-citizenship/christians-and-politics.aspx

Christians and Politics

Laws reflect morals and what's best for our society. As Christians, we have the right, calling and duty to be involved in shaping those policies.

Part of that broad view includes getting involved in government—because government invariably is involved with all of us.

Here, you have what most people have been exposed to, the right-wing agenda that dominates mainstream Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses don't collectively fold into any given democratic political agenda.

61

Watchtower's United Nations Association

by Celestial in

temporarily, there's confusion until i get the facts straight: .

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php .

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/default.html .

Celestial

Temporarily, there's confusion until I get the facts straight:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/default.html

140

Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

by Terry in

this is the one thing nobody is ever able to explain to me!.

if a genius designs something to operate in a specific way in order to obtain a precise outcome and it doesn't work---tell me again why we don't blame the genius designer/manufacturer??.

oh--that free will maguffin!.

Celestial

According to the Bible, sentient beings were created with freewill and an inclination to give God glory. There's nothing to prevent intelligent lifeforms from trying to assume what rightly belongs to God. Satan initiated a power-struggle. The unfounded quest for power can destroy morality and the capacity for reason.

The founders of our government (United States) knew that power can be intoxicating and has the potential to corrupt. That's why the separation of powers (often used interchangeably with the trias politica principle) was established to prevent the abuse of power. God is incorruptible because he has the right to rule.

"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." Revelation 4:11

47

Songs you Hid From Jehovah as a Teen

by charlie brown jr. in

sitting enjoying a 70 degree day for the first time since?????????????.

listening to the i pod ....... and this song was my secret dark side!!!!.

pure evil "music" lyrics "band name"................. my secret pleasure!!!

Celestial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6n3sZlqrCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN0yI-ambNY&feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-TTWgiYL4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHWHEtoqTF4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uda7RxWnJIA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuMIl86kj4E&feature=fvwrel

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

Celestial

"....And what if it IS the truth????"

Many people upon belief would shudder like Satan and the demons. Believing in God and the truth can be two different things.

You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. James 2:19

Satan and the demons believe in God and the truth. According to the Bible however, Satan has the capacity to “blind” human minds and create a system of disbelief.

If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

2

Crisis of Conscience Chapter 6: Double Standards

by Celestial in

the pdf of crisis of conscience is available online.

i jumped to chapter 6, double standards and examined the situation regarding jehovah's witnesses position in malawi and the mandatory requirement to buy a malawi congress party (mcp) card.

i may have missed something, but it should be glaringly obvious what took place here.

Celestial

The PDF of Crisis of Conscience is available online. I jumped to chapter 6, “Double Standards” and examined the situation regarding Jehovah's Witnesses position in Malawi and the mandatory requirement to buy a Malawi Congress Party (MCP) card. I may have missed something, but it should be glaringly obvious what took place here. My response isn't apologetics, just a logical response to what I read.

The Witnesses in Malawi never petitioned the Watchtower Society headquarters in reference to their stand on political neutrality and the WTS never made any direct statements to the Witnesses in Malawi about the specific direction they should take. The WTS basically took a stance of individualism on the part of themselves and others while giving do recognition to the stand the Malawian Witnesses took.

On one occasion, Malcolm Vigo was requested by some party officials to visit a brother from the Jumbe Congregation who had been arrested for refusing to buy a party card. Before entering the room, Brother Vigo prayed silently. It was obvious from the outset that these officials were hoping that Brother Vigo would tell them that the Watch Tower Society had clearly told its members that it was wrong to buy party cards. Instead, he stressed that the Society does not tell anyone what to do and that each person must make his own decision on the matter. The party officials were not happy with this explanation. Questions were fired from all sides. In their eagerness to trip him up, the officials would pose another question even before Brother Vigo had answered the previous one. After two hours of questioning, the brother was finally released. No party card had been bought. Yearbook 1999 pp. 176-178

It is because Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to buy the Malawi Congress Party card. This card declares the holder to be a member of the ruling political party of Malawi. But for Jehovah’s Witnesses to buy a political card and thus join a political party would be an open denial of what they believe and stand for. Awake 08/08/1976 p.5

What they believe and stand for is not necessarily what others stand for. The Witnesses in Mexico directly queried the headquarters in Brooklyn, NY.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/malawi-mexico-oath-allegiance.php

June 2, 1960

“As to those who are relieved of military training by a money transaction with the officials who are involved therewith, this is on par with what is done in other Latin American countries where brothers have paid for their relief through some military official in order to retain their freedom for theocratic activities. If members of the military establishment are willing to accept such an arrangement upon the payment of a fee then that is the responsibility of these representatives of the national organization. In such a case the money paid does not go to the military establishment, but is appropriated by the individual who undertakes the arrangement. If the consciences of certain brothers allow them to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom we have no objection. Of course, if they would get into any difficulties over their course of action then they would have to shoulder such difficulties themselves, and we could not offer them any assistance. But if the arrangement is current down there and is recognized by the inspectors who do not make any inquiries into the veracity of the matter then the matter can be passed by for the accruing advantages. Should a military emergency arise and confront these brothers with their marching card it would oblige them to make a decision by which they could not extricate themselves by a money payment and their mettle would be tested and they would have to demonstrate outright where they stand and prove that they are in favor of Christian neutrality in a determined test.

Faithfully yours in the Kingdom ministry,

Watchtower B.&T. Society
of Pennsylvania

September 5, 1969

Not that we are giving our approval in this matter, but it is their conscience, not ours, that has allowed them to take the course of action they have taken.

We cannot decide the lives of everyone in the world.

Watchtower B.&T. Society
of Pennsylvania

It seems the Watchtower headquarters yielded to a position for the allowance of individuals based on their own conscience and decision making capacity, to evade persecution or stand up to it, without interference from the WTS and to not use the governing body as a culprit.

33

Sex Before Marriage

by Wishididntknow in

how many witness couples percentage wise do you think slip up and have sex before wedding day?

did you?.

Celestial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPDh0F67YsA

33

Sex Before Marriage

by Wishididntknow in

how many witness couples percentage wise do you think slip up and have sex before wedding day?

did you?.

Celestial

I never married the Witness girls I got in trouble with. It was actually unsettling to find out the pioneer sister I was dating had an uninhibited dark side and an appetite for flesh. This didn't seem to matter to the elders during my judicial committee meeting. They said, “You violated her.”

12

Problematic JWs

by Celestial in

did you ever have a problem with one of jehovah's witnesses?.

i always got along with everyone very well except for a couple of people.

this experience was partly my fault.

Celestial

Did you ever have a problem with one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

I always got along with everyone very well except for a couple of people. This experience was partly my fault. There was this really nice looking sister with an unbelieving husband who was an alcoholic at a congregation I attended. I think her husband's alcohol problem caused her anxiety and adversely affected her personality. She was flirtatious with brothers at the meeting and even offended some sisters with the way she acted. In my opinion, this was an outlet for a tumultuous relationship at home.

Once she asked me for my e-mail address to send me an information about a gathering she was having at her house. I couldn't attend, so I sent a friendly message back explaining I had other plans for the day. The correspondence gravitated away from formal discourse and into conversations about personal matters. She used the term co-dependent to describe her relationship with her husband.

Her interest in talking to me was mainly because she had a friend that was dating a brother she thought was 'bad association.' She was hoping someone else would come along that was more suitable for her friend. So, we all had dinner one night. Around this same time, she sent me an e-mail explaining that she needed to get away from her husband. Out of poor judgment, I mistakenly responded back with something inappropriate. When her husband acquired knowledge of the correspondence, I received a very nasty e-mail from him accusing me of stalking and harassing his family. He said, if I ever contacted anyone in his family by any means, he would take legal action against me. This was total BS, because every conversation we had was mutual and very friendly. I kept a record of the correspondence.

I just avoided this sister like a plague at the meetings. If she sat on one side of the Kingdom Hall, I sat on the other. Eight months later, I came to the meeting late and an attendant sat me right behind this sister. When she saw me, she gave me the dirtiest 'go to hell' look I've ever seen. I didn't know it at the time, but what had happened, is the sister she wanted me to hook up with got dumped by the the brother she thought was 'bad association' and her friend quit attending meetings. Like I remotely had anything to with that.

At the time, I didn’t know what her deal was. None-the-less, when I got home from the meeting, I e-mailed an apology. I thought to myself, what's the worst thing that can happen? They'll go to the police because I sent an e-mail? At best, any member of law enforcement will explain to them what the laws actually are and teach this couple how to use an e-mail filter.

At the next meeting, her husband showed up drunk and assaulted me in the parking lot and started a fist fight as I was walking to my car. He obviously wasn't thinking clearly, because he did this in front of several people. Had someone called the police, he would have been arrested for public intoxication and assault and battery. Some brothers broke up the fight and said this doesn't need to be going on here because this is Jehovah's house. The whole thing felt surreal because I hadn't been in a physical fight since I was sixteen, let alone at the Kingdom Hall.

The next day, the elders showed up at my house and asked me to attend another congregation. I disagreed and told them I wasn't going anywhere. This sister's husband attended the meetings for the next few weeks and apologized to me. There was also a local needs part during the next service meeting about not pressing charges against members of the congregation. The funny thing is that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for e-mail. You'd be surprised at the trouble text messaging has caused some people.

3

Movies with Jehovah's Witnesses

by Celestial in

i can recall a few.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki801ccg9yo.

Celestial

I can recall a few...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki801ccg9Yo