Posts by NotFormer

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

NotFormer

Earnest , thanks again! I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of end-times prophecy and apocalyptic writings; I just want to understand the previous WT position on this point. I had a quick leaf through some of the Daniel book. Are they double dipping on the King of the North/King of the South prophecy, giving it multiple fulfilments?

slimboyfat, I guess you are being somewhat flippant bringing up that change, but how major was that understanding in the average JW's belief system? Would anyone have noticed the change? You obviously did. Would the new light have been the subject of watercooler conversations by JWs?

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

NotFormer

Riley, you've pointed out something that has raised (or theoretically raised) its ugly head since the changes in 2012: who exactly is supposed to/allowed to partake?

My understanding was that the FDS was a class, identical with the 144,000. They were known as the anointed? And only the annointed could partake?

With the change, are the 144,000 still annointed?

Can only the GB partake now? I'm not being silly or facetious; I'm genuinely confused!

Also, I've read on another thread that the FDS designation is very specific: that the FDS only exists as an entity at a GB meeting in the presence of "holy spirit". Is that correct? If so, can the GB only partake if they are in a properly convened GB meeting?

Hopefully someone here has a handle on all this; on this subject, I'm hopelessly lost!

3

NZ Article: Abuse in care inquiry: Jehovah's Witness church appeals dismissal of bid for exclusion

by Tahoe in

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511603/abuse-in-care-inquiry-jehovah-s-witness-church-appeals-dismissal-of-bid-for-exclusion .

the jehovah's witness church is appealing the high court's dismissal of its legal bid to get out of being part of the abuse in care inquiry.. the high court in wellington dismissed its application for a judicial review in october after a three-year behind-the-scenes battle between the church and the inquiry.. a hearing is set for 21 march in the court of appeal in wellington.. in a letter to survivors today, the inquiry said it could not comment further as the matter was before the court, but it would have wellbeing support available at the hearing for survivors who attend.. the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses australasia said it considered the high court judgment "contained errors of law which is seeks to challenge".. "given the matter is again active litigation, it is not appropriate for ccjwa to disclose anything further at this point," it said in a statement.. the church sought a judicial review to be exempt from the inquiry, arguing it was beyond the inquiry's scope because it did not run institutions that cared for children or vulnerable people.. in her judgment, justice ellis said the jehovah's witness church did not have a "fundamental right to avoid scrutiny".. the church's claim that its policies prevented elders - who are like ministers - from spending time alone with children, was also thrown out by ellis, who said evidence provided to the inquiry, and from overseas, showed otherwise.. the inquiry's scope was expanded to include faith-based institutions in november 2018 after lobbying from religious groups and survivors.

the jehovah's witness faith is the only group to oppose being involved, culminating in its application for a judicial review in may 2023..

NotFormer

An interesting list of charges against the WT. Is this related to the abuse in care inquiry or something different?

"Legal entity switching and phoenixing" is an interesting one. The WT is known to have a multitude of corporate faces and masks to hide behind.

As for modern slavery, I guess that we all have an idea of what is being said here. How do you prove that to government investigators?

Apart from CSA and the shunning of children, the above seems like a wishlist of grievances that someone wants the WT hit over the head with.

Is the government entity in charge of charities in NZ having an investigation of its own?

86

New light on shunning?

by Mikejw in

one theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.

he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .

what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.

NotFormer

Vidiot, do you think that even PIMI parents might also discourage it, if they're forward thinking enough and have crunched the numbers on what might happen?

I imagine even PIMIs have grey areas and limits on their loyalty to the organisation.

86

New light on shunning?

by Mikejw in

one theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.

he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .

what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.

NotFormer

It's a particularly cruel approach to manipulate children in this way. But the organisation seems to have always disliked children. Too much drain on vital "Kingdom" resources, I guess. 🙄

Unfortunately for them, their century old disdain for children is finally attracting attention. Not allowing minors to be baptised, and therefore removing their eligibility for disfellowshipment and shunning, would be a great start. Would they extend the kinder gentler approach to adults? Not likely. The leadership has always enjoyed its power to grind its loyal subjects down.

The non reporting of hours and loosening up on beards looked for a moment like a step towards being a more compassionate organisation. But the real truth is probably that the changes are to muddy the waters on how much control the GB has over individuals.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5143429722406912/reason-behind-recent-watchtower-changes

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

NotFormer

slimboyfat, I had no idea what that meant, so I googled it. It seems that there was indeed some sort of a change in interpretation, but I wasn't able, from the sparse amount about it, to figure out what. What did they used to say about her and what was the change, and when did they change it?

46

What you think consequences gonna be for watchtower if they lose the court appeal in Norway?

by Hellothere in

personally i think they gonna realise god's not backing org.

that idea gonna get even more established in their minds.

i think the real selling of kingdom hall gonna start then.

NotFormer

They used to brag about their success rates in court cases and lobbying. They hardly ever win any victories now. What's changed: the nature of the cases, the tolerance of governments and the courts, or something else?

46

What you think consequences gonna be for watchtower if they lose the court appeal in Norway?

by Hellothere in

personally i think they gonna realise god's not backing org.

that idea gonna get even more established in their minds.

i think the real selling of kingdom hall gonna start then.

NotFormer

Athanasius: 'What the JWs fail to realize is that by accepting government funding they must also accept government control, just like other religions'

"He who pays the piper calls the tune".

87

Lines you would never hear from a Jehovah's Witness

by Ron.W. in

a slightly tongue in cheek, but also serious roundup of jw speak and why trying to reason with them is like trying to chip through concrete with a plastic spoon.. how many can you think of??.

elder: 'yes.

i read through the material you asked me to at your judicial meeting - you're right we're both in a cult!

NotFormer

"The faithful and discreet slave story is a parable, not a prophecy."

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

NotFormer

Thanks for that, Earnest. It's helpful to have actual WT confirmation. Otherwise it looks like mere speculation.