Hmmmm.
I am surprised someone hasn't said the Evil WatchTower did it.
princecharmant
JoinedPosts by princecharmant
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13
It must be Armageddon...
by r51785 indid anyone else besides my never-been-a-dub wife notice that today's events fullfilled the prophecy made on page 208 of the book "from paradise lost to paradise regained?
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Possibility vs Probability of JW 'Action'
by VeniceIT inyesterday alanf posted an excellent parody of wt propoganda.
the thread was very interesting and a debate was underway as to whether he was way off base and just saying things out of hatred, or if there is some basis to think it's a possiblity, scary thought.. i have no intention of re-starting or starting a debate at this time (ok who am i and what have i don't to venice, jk hahhaha).
i simply would like to share my insights on the jw attitude toward apostates.. when i was a dedicated jw and had been asked that question by alan, 'would you kill apostates if the wts told you too?
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princecharmant
The WT has never ordered its members or suggested to them that they could go out and settle scores with whoever. The possibility of them doing so is remote indeed. As tragic as some of the stories related here are, the fact is that we all at one time subscribed to the Society's interpretation of Paul's word to not even say a greeting to the one "thrown out". Those were the "rules".
I find the overall tone of this thread too condescending, the characterization and portrayal of Witnesses too blanket.
pc
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43
Reform....why?
by Deacon inthe organization cannot be reformed from outside; that can only come from individuals who have the guts and will to do so inside, and the determination to get rid of hardline thinking that is so strangling.
my personal desire is to see immediate change regarding the child abuse policy, and that will come.
to see a clear, quick change in the horribly inconsistent blood policy rather than drag it out over years; kids are dying in the process.enforced shunning is also an evil that they will have to deal with eventually; it's ripping them apart.. .
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princecharmant
Reform will come from within and without. Had Bowen not taken a stand on silent lambs and not readied himself to face the consequences of doing so, it would have taken much longer for the Organization to admit to face the facts. Had "apostates" not given Bowen some helping hand in publicizing his efforts, what is a worldwide issue would have been limited to a small locality. It will take all manners of pressure for the WT to change, but change it must. Those who choose to remain witnesses will benefit from a more people-oriented organization than what currently exists.
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Please help me with the forum
by Simon inkeeping a balance in what is allowed and what is not is very difficult and is more difficult if i have to take action against one person when i have let other things go by others.. it would help a lot if we could stop the personal attacks and some of the name calling & insults that are thrown about.
i know personalities do and will clash but please disagree about the subjects being discussed and not get personal!.
if you think someone is deliberately trying to cause arguments please do not respond to them as this is giving in to what they want.
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princecharmant
I am amazed at most who post wanting Friday banned for good. I may be wrong, but one of the things most talked about on this forum is how unloving the act of disfellowshipping is. Yet here we are, in the main advocating the same thing. Certain posters even resort to acrimony to describe just how bad Friday was and why he had to go. That basic Witness reflex/instinct of excommunicating "trouble makers" seems to have left its mark on most on this board.
For reasons of fairness, Friday's account should be reactivated. He may spew vitriol, but he is merely one of so many doing so on this forum. Except the rules (if indeed there are) are applied across the board, they should not be applied at all.
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!ONE MORE ELDER FACING WTS EXECUTION Part II.!
by exodus inafter i came home last night i sat down to have dinner when five minutes later i received a phone call.
i did not picked up the phone.
then it rang again and refuse to answer it so i let the answering machine handle it.
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princecharmant
tx,
I know this to be an ordeal for you and your family. However, having been a PO (if what I have read in certain other posts is right), you at some point did exactly what these elders are doing to you. You set up judicial committees, probably sat on a number of them and may have approved people being disfellowshiped over a range of cases. In your zeal of then, your will was to "protect" the congregation from spiritual harm.
Now that roles have reversed and you are the hunted, you should remember that at some point in the past you used to be the hunter. Even as you come down heavily against these two guys for what they are doing to you and your family, bear in mind that they too are victims of a twisted system. Perhaps they'll see the "light" some day as you may have.
My sympathies go not only to you and yours, but to them as well.
pc
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46
1975 Reaction
by MadApostate inthis past weekend, one of the few remaining jw relatives who will still discuss jw stuff with me told me about his recently attending a home bible study being conducted by an elder.
evidently, the study had been told or had picked up some info about the 1975 fiasco.
the elder totally denied that the society had stated or even led people to believe that armageddon would occur in 1975, and he naturally blamed some individual jws for misinterpreting the society's materials.
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princecharmant
1975. I turned a teenager the year the world was to have ended. A year to that year, there was NOT ONE MEETING that did not mention the coming great tribulation. It was the one subject all Witnesses in all congregations spoke about. It was the reason kids were pulled out of school, the reason most brothers and sisters had that collective look of madness in their eyes since they "knew" it was all going to be over in a couple of months or weeks, then we would help the carrion birds clean up the mess. 1975 was why most of us went out in the heavy rain of the tropics, slushed through muddy paths, suffered sun-stroke, waded rivers to get to announce the "good news" before it was too late. It was why we lived, because we were going to live forever thereafter. We could suspend comfort, education, every thing else because we would get it all real soon. And even if we died announcing the news of the end of "the system of things", we would wake up into a brand new world.
And now they say it was never said. The references to that year are there in black and white in the publications - including the Kingdom Ministry. Six Thousand Years of Man's Rule - came to an end in 1975, thus saith the Watch Tower. The major publications contained time charts pointing to 1975.
In believing and propagating the falsehood that was 1975, the Witness-world suffered collective dementia. But some of us who lived through those times cannot admit the collective amnesia. Young as I was, my zeal for this religion (of my fathers, yeah) has been on the wane since that year - and all the lies, deceit and denial that followed have precipitated things much faster. For anyone to now claim we read too much meaning into that year is too great an insult. Each inch of the way we were told and retold that the end would come in 75. There was no room for any other argument and whoever the people were who led us all on (especially those who cooked up and served the lie), they stand accountable to God Jehovah for destroying so many lives and now turning back to deny they ever did so.
Now to the question: did we stock up in our part of the world? No. I am from the third world; daily living was/is hard enough and money in short supply. The idea of getting supplies was never mooted here - and could not have been followed anyway. On hindsight, 1975 was of much stronger appeal here partly because most of the Friends were only managing to survive. We all gave in to the idea of having those dainty homes the publications showed would soon be ours, and then all those great animals we'd play with, and them gorgeous apples (had never eaten one before, only had my first apple in '84). And of course, we all wanted to travel the world, talk to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Solomon and Abel and Methuselah and Mary the mother of Jesus and allsuchdeadbutback ones.
Too bad I'm getting close to forty, all the way from thirteen.
pc
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most embarrasing thing ever at a meeting ...
by alliwannadoislive inhey ... i'm just getting into the swing of this great 'apostasy' thing right ... ?
... i thought y'all out there might well have a story or two to tell, so ... plz tell me tell me tell me about the most embarrasing thing you ever saw at a meeting ...
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princecharmant
A brother comments to the question: Why is regular personal study of the Bible important?
Says he: because it whets our sexual appetite.
The whole hall goes a-gog.
Brother had been disciplined several times before then for sexual-related offenses. Yes, I sat on the committee each time, and he'd only recently won the "right" to start making comments again.
pc
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6
Watchtower in Review. HYPOCRITES
by biblexaminer ini have not made a watchtower in review for a while, and certainly not yet, here on jw.com.
hypocrites.. it only gets better, as paragraph 3, under the subheading "belief versus truth" begins with the statement "of course, it does not take deliberate lies to develop mistaken beliefs", but as the watchtower knows all to well, it helps.
"well, it is true that religious leaders who claim to follow the bible have produced many confusing and conflicting ideas.
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princecharmant
Bx,
My only fear is that at the rate you're going, you're about losing your head/health. I know this board is cathartic: you spill it out and you feel slightly better. But just how long are you going to lead a double life? Please I do not mean this to be derogatory, but hiding your on-line activities from your wife, conducting the book study, carrying on as an elder, going out (still) in field service and placing magazines and books (which you admit are worthless at best, extremely harmful at worst - therefore akin to administering poison to unsuspecting people), turning in your report, giving talks, teaching what you no longer believe, goading the flock, secretly wishing they'd all quit the religion you're in but vilify, the list is endless. I know your fears (losing wife and kids), but wouldn't it be better for all concerned if you made bold by declaring who you truly are and what you now believe? Wouldn't it be far better if you stopped being a hypocrite yourself?
I too "have been there" and that personal conflict and struggle leave a telling mark. I believe you're doing more harm than good to yourself and your loved ones, notwithstanding your "services" to this board.
pc
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20
Why DO they stay?
by BugEye inthere is much discussion of the "dumbness" of those still in and the reason that they stay.. some of the reasons that i have seen are:.
they want everything in black and white.. they prefer to leave thinking to others.. they are scared to be shunned.. they are just ignorant souls who are on the "opium of the people".
they dont want others to think bad of them.. while i agree that there is no one single reason and that everyone is different, i feel that the real reason is a much deeper one.
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princecharmant
The issues may be far more complicated.
"They want everything in black and white."
I believe this applies to every religion. Adepts want to see things in simple, uncomplicated terms, and the simpler the better. If the earth was created in six days, six days be it. Anything beyond that fundamental interpretation is bound to raise contention, spurn depths that religion in the basic sense is not kitted out to handle. It is not typical of Jehovah's Witnesses.
"They prefer to leave thinking to others."
Again typical to most religious groups. That's why there is a clergy class in every structured religion. The clergy are supposedly closer to the divine, therefore able to think and interprete, teach the laity.
"They are scared to be shunned."
Rightfully so. It's human to want to belong to the group and not be ostracized. It's sad for any religion to use "shunning" as a weapon. This is one of the most reprehensible of practices among Witnesses. Unfortunately, the majority of witnesses think they are right and biblically authorized to disfellowship and shun - even as the Catholic Church claims every right to excommunicate.
"They are just ignorant souls who are on the "opium of the people" "
You could generalize that to every religion and body of beliefs. Which would make every believer in or practicer of a religion an ignorant soul, needing a frequent fix of that "opium"....
"They dont want others to think bad of them."
An all too human reaction.
Could it be that many Witnesses who choose to remain simply want a religion to cling to, and they are reasonably comfortable with what they have?
I think it too presumptuous on anyone's part to dump scores of thousands into simplified and simplistic pigeon holes for their own comfort.
PC
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AISNE - FROM WITNET DAYS
by princecharmant insorry all if i upset you.. i'm just wondering if anyone knows what happened to aisne from the erstwhile witnet.
she used to throw heavy punches out there and i really loved to read her.
she posted (if i remember well) from south africa.
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princecharmant
Prisca and AlanF,
Thanks a million for responding. Aisne was usually a delight to read, especially given the totally assinine assertions from certain Witnet posters. Surely, that kind of mind isn't too welcome in the JW world.
Prisca:
Your writing reminded me of Aisne; I was half believing she was hiding behind your face!!!! Just shows I can't analyze style. Oh well, just to say I've appreciated your coolheaded comments to the board even when sparks fly. Keep up the good work.
pc