Reform....why?

Deacon

The organization cannot be reformed from outside; that can only come from individuals who have the guts and will to do so INSIDE, and the determination to get rid of hardline thinking that is so strangling. My personal desire is to see immediate change regarding the child abuse policy, and that will come. To see a clear, quick change in the horribly inconsistent blood policy rather than drag it out over years; kids are dying in the process.Enforced shunning is also an evil that they will have to deal with eventually; it's ripping them apart.

Okay. This is not for the those who have found that they no longer see any need to believe in a God. This is for the likes of people like me who currently are lost, rudderless and feeling the way around the gaping hole that has opened when the truth is no longer proved to be the truth.

Maximus, I did not ask your permission for quoting your words, yet I feel in this context you will not mind, however if you do I apologise and will remove your quote.

Reform or not to reform. To reform would indicate that the basic tenets of the organisation is correct, but either the application is wrong, or the doctrinal issues have changed. To reform would indicate that those wishing to pursue that path, feel that Jehovah God is or was behind the organisation.

I guess, that in posing this question, Im doing a lot of self searching. Either we as individuals were self deluded in the message we heard, or conned by smooth men, or....perhaps we believe the message but the vessel used to deliver it has corrupted or maybe even lost Gods Holy Spirit.

Or maybe as my my dear friend 6 of 9 puts it, its all a crock.

Deacon

Further questions..

If Jehovah really did/does use the FDS, are they listening?

Is it a test for us?

Are they the great apostacy of prophecy?

Are they the disgusting thing in a Holy place?

Are we lacking in faith?

It just goes round and round doesnt it?

Is The tribulation really going to happen?

sheesh...!!

er...

TMS

As my wife and I went through some trying times that we have never chronicled in this or any other forum, she kept asking me: "Where is Jehovah in all of this?"

My initial answer was: "I don't know!"

It evolved to: "Nowhere!"

TMS

Prisca

Good questions Deacon.

Reforming the WTS does not necessarily mean that God's spirit was ever with the organisation. I feel that perhaps His spirit was working with individuals, but not the whole organisation.

If reform takes place, it will be for the benefit for those who want to serve God, feel that the JWs are the closest to the "truth" yet recognise that no organisation is infallible.

It is obvious that reform is necessary in the blood doctrine and in the handling of child abuse cases. If and how such reforms take place will depend upon the efforts of those who can effect such changes.

Once these changes have come into place, possibly the stage will be set to pave the way for other doctrinal changes eg. how the FDS is viewed, the witnessing work (particularly the ineffectual door-to-door work) etc.

Time will tell.

TweetieBird

It is obvious the the WTS is losing members at an alarming rate. Therefore, if they, IMHO, want to hang on to the members that are left, and possibly add to it, then reform is definitely necessary. Other threads have alluded to the possibility of mainstreaming. At this point, I really do not care one way or another what the WTS does.

However, I would sort of like to see reform take place in the matter of shunning, only because if and when the day ever comes that I am either disfellowshipped or disassociated, my die-hard JW family will still speak to me. I seriously doubt that it will happen in my lifetime, though.

I, too like you Deacon, have done a lot of soul-searching over the past couple of years. It is a journey that is very frustrating. Your whole belief system has been turned upside-down. You start questioning everything, even the existence of God. As JW's the answers were always given to us. "Believe this because WE say it is this way." Then you wake up one day and realize that they are full of..., well you know what they are full of.

I think everyone exiting the organization has to allow themselves time to heal. You almost have to put your spirituality on the back burner and take some time just to absorb life. It is very hard to do because, for me, my whole life from infancy was always centered on Armageddon being around the corner. I never thought in terms of next year, or 5 years from now because Armageddon would be here long before then.

Now I find myself at 43 thinking, uh oh, what am I going to do when I turn 65? I better start putting some money up for retirement. I've got 22 years to save for my retirement. I really feel for those that are in their 50's and 60's that come to this realization as it will be a lot harder on them. Hopefully, they had the good sense to think about this 20 years ago.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off the subject. One thing just led to another.

Thanks for your post.

"By doubting we come at truth" -Cicero

logical

Are they the great apostacy of prophecy?

Most likely they are.

Are they the disgusting thing in a Holy place?

Yep. How disgusting is the second beast in Revelation 13?

Are we lacking in faith?

I know I am

It just goes round and round doesnt it?

Yep. We reap what we sow, the WTS are going to reap some pretty bad stuff... however, before that, they are going to turn against the GB, the "annointed" remnant, Babylon the Great.
THEY are going to reap what they've sowed... their "apostasy" from Jah to worshipping the "wild beast" who eventually turns against them.

Is The tribulation really going to happen?

Of course...

The WTS has never been correct. Through its smooth words and throwing truth to the ground, it has put itself where it should not be, and misled and scattered so many sheep.

No amount of reform can "correct" the WTS, or any religion, because they were never right. We are not supposed to worship God in buildings.

Christ did away with the old Jewish system of worshipping God in the temple building. Instead, Christians are the building blocks of the SPIRITUAL temple.

Maybe oneday I could be part of that spiritual temple.

The WTS will one day be entirely comprised of wicked men, all the honest hearted, genuine people who love Jah and will have left / been brought out of that place.

Deacon, you are one of the good people who have left the org. Count yourself lucky you have been "killed" by the WTS, the beastly image, thats all they have to offer... DEATH. Go to the one who can offer you LIFE... Jah... through Christ.

princecharmant

Reform will come from within and without. Had Bowen not taken a stand on silent lambs and not readied himself to face the consequences of doing so, it would have taken much longer for the Organization to admit to face the facts. Had "apostates" not given Bowen some helping hand in publicizing his efforts, what is a worldwide issue would have been limited to a small locality. It will take all manners of pressure for the WT to change, but change it must. Those who choose to remain witnesses will benefit from a more people-oriented organization than what currently exists.

Pathofthorns

The Society will only reform because they have to in order to survive. They have always been in a state of reform and they will keep changing with the times. The quicker pace of change these days is just evidence that they are on the run.

I did alot of searching too Deacon. Tried to reason things out the same way. But the simplest answer, the answer that is the most logical and requires the least mental gymnastics is the one your friend Six gave you. "It is all a crock."

If it is not a "crock" then find some moment in the JW modern history when it wasn't. And good intentions just don't cut it.

I don't think you are "lost" deacon. We just don't have all the answers. You are not a "rudderless ship". As long as you have your mind, you are the captain of your soul. Grab the wheel of life and stop looking for another captain.

Path

Frenchy

Reform. What would you change? What would you have after the changes? Who would decide on what the changes will be and who will punish those that don’t want the changes?

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

philo

Deacon, I'm glad you are posting here. Excuse the platitude, but hopefully you'll fix your rudder with your own ingenuity and a little help from others. But imo there's little room for discipleship on this board, but plenty for individual growth.

I see no mileage in ascribing any prophetic significance, positive or negative, to the WTBTS, unless one wants to bash present-day believers or 'this wicked world' with it.

(Btw, are you the person who was kind to one of my poems a few months back, I'm just striving after the wind, of course!)

philo

Reform....why?

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

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