i am in need of references to watchtower publications that contain images.
of united states government buildings, especially the white house-.
depicted as being violently destroyed by the watchtower society.. i have much of the wt literature pre-1992, and a bit of the post-1992 stuff,.
How did you feel when you shot your brother, flesh of your flesh and blood of your blood?
How did it feel when you pulled a gun at another human being, the one you shared the same womb with?
How did his blood look like when it flowed?
Tallyman, you're cut from the same material as those who caused this disaster.
Your post shows just how demented you've become.
pc
okay, i know (or want to believe) that not all jehovah's witnesses are this calloused.
at least i hope not.
there are some good, caring people, but here are some stark contrasts i've observed today that remind me of how glad i am that i'm not part of such an overall unloving group of people.
Tina,
I would indeed. It might fetch me the axe, but if I were in a position to donate blood for this cause, I would without hesitation.
But I am 10 000 miles away from there.
No Tina, there is no such thing as the JW mindset as expressed on WOL; the WOL mindset is a fringe mindset in my opinion. Gloating over a disaster of yesterday's proportion simply isn't what I grew up to know as a Witness.
Regards,
pc
okay, i know (or want to believe) that not all jehovah's witnesses are this calloused.
at least i hope not.
there are some good, caring people, but here are some stark contrasts i've observed today that remind me of how glad i am that i'm not part of such an overall unloving group of people.
Sorry folks, but posters on WOL are definitely NOT representative of JW feelings. I am sick and tired of some of you poaching nonsense from that board and using it to categorize millions of Jehovah's Witnesses. My first and only reaction to this disaster is grief. Grief for the thousands who have perished, grief for their families, grief for the nation, grief for humanity. And I am still a Jehovah's Witness. It shouldn't take too hard an effort to understand that on boards such as these, those who post express their opinion and feelings. I don't read WOL - I find no interest in discussing favourite pizzas and artists, etc.; and I don't see how any opinions expressed in that board should be construed to represent mine or that of any of more than six million witnesses.
did anyone else besides my never-been-a-dub wife notice that today's events fullfilled the prophecy made on page 208 of the book "from paradise lost to paradise regained?
"
Hmmmm.
I am surprised someone hasn't said the Evil WatchTower did it.
yesterday alanf posted an excellent parody of wt propoganda.
the thread was very interesting and a debate was underway as to whether he was way off base and just saying things out of hatred, or if there is some basis to think it's a possiblity, scary thought.. i have no intention of re-starting or starting a debate at this time (ok who am i and what have i don't to venice, jk hahhaha).
i simply would like to share my insights on the jw attitude toward apostates.. when i was a dedicated jw and had been asked that question by alan, 'would you kill apostates if the wts told you too?
The WT has never ordered its members or suggested to them that they could go out and settle scores with whoever. The possibility of them doing so is remote indeed. As tragic as some of the stories related here are, the fact is that we all at one time subscribed to the Society's interpretation of Paul's word to not even say a greeting to the one "thrown out". Those were the "rules".
I find the overall tone of this thread too condescending, the characterization and portrayal of Witnesses too blanket.
pc
the organization cannot be reformed from outside; that can only come from individuals who have the guts and will to do so inside, and the determination to get rid of hardline thinking that is so strangling.
my personal desire is to see immediate change regarding the child abuse policy, and that will come.
to see a clear, quick change in the horribly inconsistent blood policy rather than drag it out over years; kids are dying in the process.enforced shunning is also an evil that they will have to deal with eventually; it's ripping them apart.. .
Reform will come from within and without. Had Bowen not taken a stand on silent lambs and not readied himself to face the consequences of doing so, it would have taken much longer for the Organization to admit to face the facts. Had "apostates" not given Bowen some helping hand in publicizing his efforts, what is a worldwide issue would have been limited to a small locality. It will take all manners of pressure for the WT to change, but change it must. Those who choose to remain witnesses will benefit from a more people-oriented organization than what currently exists.
keeping a balance in what is allowed and what is not is very difficult and is more difficult if i have to take action against one person when i have let other things go by others.. it would help a lot if we could stop the personal attacks and some of the name calling & insults that are thrown about.
i know personalities do and will clash but please disagree about the subjects being discussed and not get personal!.
if you think someone is deliberately trying to cause arguments please do not respond to them as this is giving in to what they want.
I am amazed at most who post wanting Friday banned for good. I may be wrong, but one of the things most talked about on this forum is how unloving the act of disfellowshipping is. Yet here we are, in the main advocating the same thing. Certain posters even resort to acrimony to describe just how bad Friday was and why he had to go. That basic Witness reflex/instinct of excommunicating "trouble makers" seems to have left its mark on most on this board.
For reasons of fairness, Friday's account should be reactivated. He may spew vitriol, but he is merely one of so many doing so on this forum. Except the rules (if indeed there are) are applied across the board, they should not be applied at all.
after i came home last night i sat down to have dinner when five minutes later i received a phone call.
i did not picked up the phone.
then it rang again and refuse to answer it so i let the answering machine handle it.
tx,
I know this to be an ordeal for you and your family. However, having been a PO (if what I have read in certain other posts is right), you at some point did exactly what these elders are doing to you. You set up judicial committees, probably sat on a number of them and may have approved people being disfellowshiped over a range of cases. In your zeal of then, your will was to "protect" the congregation from spiritual harm.
Now that roles have reversed and you are the hunted, you should remember that at some point in the past you used to be the hunter. Even as you come down heavily against these two guys for what they are doing to you and your family, bear in mind that they too are victims of a twisted system. Perhaps they'll see the "light" some day as you may have.
My sympathies go not only to you and yours, but to them as well.
pc
this past weekend, one of the few remaining jw relatives who will still discuss jw stuff with me told me about his recently attending a home bible study being conducted by an elder.
evidently, the study had been told or had picked up some info about the 1975 fiasco.
the elder totally denied that the society had stated or even led people to believe that armageddon would occur in 1975, and he naturally blamed some individual jws for misinterpreting the society's materials.
1975. I turned a teenager the year the world was to have ended. A year to that year, there was NOT ONE MEETING that did not mention the coming great tribulation. It was the one subject all Witnesses in all congregations spoke about. It was the reason kids were pulled out of school, the reason most brothers and sisters had that collective look of madness in their eyes since they "knew" it was all going to be over in a couple of months or weeks, then we would help the carrion birds clean up the mess. 1975 was why most of us went out in the heavy rain of the tropics, slushed through muddy paths, suffered sun-stroke, waded rivers to get to announce the "good news" before it was too late. It was why we lived, because we were going to live forever thereafter. We could suspend comfort, education, every thing else because we would get it all real soon. And even if we died announcing the news of the end of "the system of things", we would wake up into a brand new world.
And now they say it was never said. The references to that year are there in black and white in the publications - including the Kingdom Ministry. Six Thousand Years of Man's Rule - came to an end in 1975, thus saith the Watch Tower. The major publications contained time charts pointing to 1975.
In believing and propagating the falsehood that was 1975, the Witness-world suffered collective dementia. But some of us who lived through those times cannot admit the collective amnesia. Young as I was, my zeal for this religion (of my fathers, yeah) has been on the wane since that year - and all the lies, deceit and denial that followed have precipitated things much faster. For anyone to now claim we read too much meaning into that year is too great an insult. Each inch of the way we were told and retold that the end would come in 75. There was no room for any other argument and whoever the people were who led us all on (especially those who cooked up and served the lie), they stand accountable to God Jehovah for destroying so many lives and now turning back to deny they ever did so.
Now to the question: did we stock up in our part of the world? No. I am from the third world; daily living was/is hard enough and money in short supply. The idea of getting supplies was never mooted here - and could not have been followed anyway. On hindsight, 1975 was of much stronger appeal here partly because most of the Friends were only managing to survive. We all gave in to the idea of having those dainty homes the publications showed would soon be ours, and then all those great animals we'd play with, and them gorgeous apples (had never eaten one before, only had my first apple in '84). And of course, we all wanted to travel the world, talk to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Solomon and Abel and Methuselah and Mary the mother of Jesus and allsuchdeadbutback ones.
Too bad I'm getting close to forty, all the way from thirteen.
pc
hey ... i'm just getting into the swing of this great 'apostasy' thing right ... ?
... i thought y'all out there might well have a story or two to tell, so ... plz tell me tell me tell me about the most embarrasing thing you ever saw at a meeting ...
A brother comments to the question: Why is regular personal study of the Bible important?
Says he: because it whets our sexual appetite.
The whole hall goes a-gog.
Brother had been disciplined several times before then for sexual-related offenses. Yes, I sat on the committee each time, and he'd only recently won the "right" to start making comments again.
pc
