Posts by proplog2

18

Anticultists, APA & Margaret Singer

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

margaret singer is one of the favorite "experts" of those who like to paint with a wide "cult-accusing" brush.. anyone who speaks against singer is labeled a "cult-apologist".

if you don't know about margaret singer do a search on google.com using the following words margaret singer & apa .

apa is the main professional association of psychologists.. please be warned.

proplog2

I'm not going to participate in Amazings coutner post. It would be one thing if this post had passed some time horizon and there was a need for bringing this subject to the top.

I will now answer his rebuttal and carry on discussion in this context.

First Amazing throws a couple of straw-man fallacies into the mix. If my use of APA was confusing he should have made a good faith effort to ask me to clarify the confusion. Of course I did not mean American Psychiatric Association - I don't believe Singer is a psychiatrist. (Correct me if I'm wrong) And I didn't mean the American Philosophical Association. I don't believe Singer is a working philosopher. (Againg correct me if I'm wrong) And I didn't mean the American Poodle Association, American Pun Association, or any other APA. I was referring to the APA of which she was a member.
So much for the Straw-men. The torch of logic shows Amazings intentions here.

Let's get on with his next rebuttal. He uses the guilt by association fallacy. This fallacy consists in attempting to "mind-control" others into accepting his view by pointing out that the opposing view is held by those with negative esteem, instead of presenting evidence for his position.

In fact I warned that a lot of the information against Singer is on Scientologist web-sites. But does the fact that the Scientologist point out that the APA (I'm NOT going to explain APA everytime I use it.) severely criticized Singer's research as being lousy science
mean that this didn't happen? Is the fact that Scientologist (or whatever Devil you choose) claimed Singer took the APA to court and the judge ruled against her mean that this didn't happen?

I am not likely to be a victim of any organization because I work hard to look for the fallacies in peoples (including my own) reasoning.

12

Make your predictions here.What will happen...

by sleepy in

jw
friends

make your prediction here.. so what do you think will happen to the society in the next ten years.. theres a big prize waiting here for anyone who gets it right.

a gaint chocolate cake!

which can only be eaten in ten years time.. so i make my prediction first.. 1.the society will have had a major doctrine change as to 1914 and 144,000.. 2.most will leave the org due to disillusionment.. 3.there will be a breakaway group of more fanatical witness they will be the orthodox witnesses.. there will also be a group of the liberal witnesses but will not last as long while the other group will grow.. do i win the cake?

proplog2

1. A nuclear explosion will destroy lower manhattan & Watctower HQ
2. JW's will realize that this is the "disgusting thing standing where it ought not"
3. They will realize that Babylon the Great is the USA and that it is time for them to flee before the USA is completely destroyed.
4. They will flee to Mexico,Central & South America.
5. Russia will obliterate the USA and Putin will become world dictator.
6. The word will spread about a wacky religious group that escaped the destruction of the USA.
7. It will become a popular movement with masses joining.
8. This will become a challenge to Putins world dictatorship.
9. Putin will demand that govenrments put an end to JW's.
10. At that point help comes from the Sky. The mother ship arrives or some other earth saving event.

18

Anticultists, APA & Margaret Singer

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

margaret singer is one of the favorite "experts" of those who like to paint with a wide "cult-accusing" brush.. anyone who speaks against singer is labeled a "cult-apologist".

if you don't know about margaret singer do a search on google.com using the following words margaret singer & apa .

apa is the main professional association of psychologists.. please be warned.

proplog2

SF

Obvious propaganda from the AFF

AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience.

Sounds nice but they are in the "anti-cult" business.

18

Anticultists, APA & Margaret Singer

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

margaret singer is one of the favorite "experts" of those who like to paint with a wide "cult-accusing" brush.. anyone who speaks against singer is labeled a "cult-apologist".

if you don't know about margaret singer do a search on google.com using the following words margaret singer & apa .

apa is the main professional association of psychologists.. please be warned.

proplog2

Amazing:

I am sure you can see the semantic difficulties here. Either you put "all" religion on a "cult" continuum or you are left with a typology of two - namely cult vs. non-cult. Everyone will draw the line differently based on their purposes. If you are in the "anti-cult" business you will want to expand the classification of cult. If you have had bad experiences with a particular group you will try to frame the definition of cult to include the problem group.

The best solution is to attack each religion on its own. Find the fallacies in the structure of their belief systems. Of course if you do that then "all" religion is non-sense. The cult business has as their target "customer" people who would like to get their family member back into their "old-time" religion.

The problem with new religious movements is that they form a culture around the personality of its founder. There is a certain profile to these "founder" types. There is a personality inventory called the DISC. It is based on research by John Marston. There are several companies that publish this instrument. D stands for dominance. I stands for Influence. S stands for the Steadiness scale. C stands for compliance.

There is a type that is called the "INSPIRATIONAL PATTERN" which is high in (D)ominance and (I)nfluence.

These are the types that start new religious movements. I want to quote this profile from material put out by Performax Co.

"Persons with the Inspirational Pattern" consciously attempt to modify the thoughts and actions of others. They are astute in identifying and manipulating a person's existing motives and directing the resulting behavior toward a predetermined end. Inspirational Persons are firm about the results they want, but do not always verbalize them immediately. They introduce the results they want only when they have created an environment of readiness in the other person. For example, Inspirational Persons offer friendship to those desiring acceptance, more authority to those who seek power, and security to those who need a predictable environment. Inspirational Persons can be charming in their contacts with others. They are persuasive in obtaining assistance for the repetitive and time-consuming details. However, people often experience a conflicting sensation of being drawn to them and yet curiously distanced. Others may have a feeling of being "used". Inspirational Persons can inspire fear in others and they often override the decisions of others."

Like all typologies (16-PF, Myers Briggs, Enneagram etc.) their are other profiles. Here are some of the others. Specialist,Counselor,Creative,Developer,Investigator,Objective Thinker, Persuader, Perfectionist, Practitioner, promoter, Result Oriented, Achiever, Agent, Appraiser.

Do a search on the internet for DISC & PSYCHOLOGY & PERSONALITY

My point is that there are probably close to 300 million people scattered accross the face of the earth that have this Inspirational pattern. They intuitively know how to suck people into their programs. They are a vital part of society. Probably nothing gets initiated without them. There is no way you can protect people from all the schemes these people are trying to hatch.

18

Anticultists, APA & Margaret Singer

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

margaret singer is one of the favorite "experts" of those who like to paint with a wide "cult-accusing" brush.. anyone who speaks against singer is labeled a "cult-apologist".

if you don't know about margaret singer do a search on google.com using the following words margaret singer & apa .

apa is the main professional association of psychologists.. please be warned.

proplog2

Margaret Singer is one of the favorite "experts" of those who like to paint with a wide "cult-accusing" brush.

Anyone who speaks against Singer is labeled a "cult-apologist". If you don't know about Margaret Singer do a search on GOOGLE.COM using the following words MARGARET SINGER & APA

APA is the main professional association of Psychologists.

Please be warned. The Scientologists have a big investment in discrediting Singer and so a lot of the hits may be sponsored by them. But, weigh the facts.

19

Does Mind Control Exist?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

there have been several newspaper stories published recently implying that brainwashing and mind control do not exist.

this is very unusual in that, suddenly before the trial of suspected terrorist cult members, we start seeing spontaneous articles from different news sources telling the american public that mind control does not exist.. this has happened before.

if you want to see an excellent reply to the last time a similar disinformation/misinformation campaign was activated then read the article below the dotted line.

proplog2

I believe in mind control. Society would not be possible without it. We all are trying to bridge the gap that we feel separates us from others. The best defense against mind control requires a rigourous effort to develop logical thinking skills. Learn a few common falacies. By the way Singer is paranoid at this point. She refers to anyone that doesn't share her viewpoint on cults as cult apologists.

The dsmIV intentionally removed the word "cult". Is Singer still a member in good standing of the APA?

16

Are you still an eschatologist?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

are you still an eschatologist?

here is what merriam-webster's dictionary online dictionary says about eschatology:.

main entry: eschatology .

proplog2

Yes. I still believe there is a point where man's territoriality comes close to destroying mankind. I believe the Bible presents an uncanny description of events that lead up to that critical point. However, I don't think the Bible is the word of god. More like the word of some older brothers.

44

My visit to WT official site

by larc in

jw
friends

englishman has a thread about the generation idea and the apostates - most interesting.

after reading this, it occured to me it would be interesting to go to the official watchtower internet site and use there search function on different words and see what they had to say.

here is what i found out.. first of all, they do not show complete articles.

proplog2

YoYo:

I don't know much about the web. But I'm sure Kent could easily put their whole CD-ROM on the internet.

27

When Is Disfellowshipping Appropriate?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is the societies policy of shunning unrepentant miscreants scriptural?

this is what the nwt has to say:.

moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone.

proplog2

When the scripture says you should bring someone before the congregation I think that is literal. The facts of the case would be presented before everyone in the congregation with each side stating its case and subject to examination by anyone who may have a question. People could refuse to answer questions. At the conclusion of the congregation hearing those attending would show hands about whether they feel the person should be part of the congretation. This would be a rebuke by the majority. However, individuals would still be able to decide on how they would personally view the accused.

These "public" meetings would be optional and attended only by those who feel they have an interest in the situation. The tendency would be for most of these matters to be settled "out of court" that is with one or two witnesses perhaps arbitrating.

This proecedure would alert congregations to all those who would harm them.. child molesters included. It would reveal to all the modus operandi of the perpetrator and would provide excellent lessons on how to avoid trouble.

It would especially be useful in giving those with doctrinal differences a chance to explain their stand before being excommunicated for trying to start a sect.

33

Why no monkey stories?(evolution)

by sleepy in

jw
friends

(the title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, i just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech)).

something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact.

the various histories of how man came to be.. which leads me to the question,.

proplog2

The Bible writers didn't even know that females have eggs that have to be ferilized. They thought the womb was like "soil". They thought sperm contained a little tiny person that got planted in the "soil/Womb". The whole noble idea of "redemption" is based on this nonsense. The idea that Adam had little people inside him that shared his sins. Even the idea that the "word" was planted in Mary's fertile soil.

Religion should be viewed as "ancient" science. It was the best attempt to piece together the known forces with observed effects to come up with a working hypothesis or orientation. Modern science has much more to learn and current theories continue to be challenged. However it is long past the time to abbandon Biblical explanations.