Posts by proplog2

31

The Difference between being a Convert and being raised a Witness

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

the difference between being a convert and being raised a witness having come from a single parent family, i realized the need.

for some sort of structured and organized way of life.

roman.

proplog2

I am a third generation JW. The biggest difference for me and my family is that we are broke-ass poor. My parents and grandparents (immigrants) thought the end was coming and never accumulated money. The non-witness part of my family all have good education, great jobs, nice houses. And they aren't the brightest bulbs on the lamp. There never was money for down payment for a house - the one investment that most people have. Now my parents are dead and they left nothing to their kids. My contemporaries who became JW's on their own have all inherited money from their parents. None of them are millionaires but they got 200-500 thousand bonus from their parent's death.

The biggest difference is that serious JW's don't accumulate wealth. For the average family this needs to be done over a couple generations. I have known JW's who didn't take the religion serious who got their coins.

Add to that the problems with leaving. You need your families for help. (Usually baby-sitting and transportation emergencies.) You have no friends outside. No network. Bad health because self-employment (carpet laying, window washing, janitorial work) puts you out of range of good insurance.

My Grandparents came from Eastern Europe to live the good life. Then they became JW's oooooops. That's it for a couple of generations.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

Here is a pretty good candidate for Babylon the Great:

"In the context of the world-system, hegemony means that one nation possesses such unrivaled supremacy, such predominant influence in economic power, military might, and political-ideological leadership, that no other power, or combination of powers, can prevail against it. Economic supremacy is the indispensable base of hegemony, for all other forms of power are possible with it and no other possible, for very long without it. Any hegemonic power must, simultaneously, contain the dominant financial center, possess a clear comparative advantage in a wide range of high-tech, high-profit industries, and function commercially as both the world's major exporter and its major importer. Beyond economic power, it must possess clear military superiority and ideological hegemony as well. By fear or respect, it must be able to exert its political will over the rest of the system and command deference to its principles and policies. America's Half Century Thomas McCormick The Johns Hopkins Univ. Press 1989

21

It just seems that Witnesses are less active these days.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i remember being a teenager and being at friends home on saturdays, and every time you turn around there was a witness knocking at the door.

my non-witness friends would be nice, and say no, as they did not want to insult me.

even though, as a teenager, i was not a witnesses (baptized) and did not make a public show of my connection to people outside of the congregation.

proplog2

Typical week for JW's in the 1950's

Tuesday: Pre-Study work 6:30-7:30 Book Study 8-9

Wednesday: Bible Study Night. Conduct a bible study with interested ones.

Friday: Street Corner Work 7:00 to 8:00

Saturday Morning Magazine work 9-11 Magazine Route Calls 11-Noon (No breaks)

Sunday Morning Sermon work 9:00 - Noon

My family averaged 35 hours per month each.

Pioneers 100 hours per month.

Special Pioneers 150 hours.

Vacation Pioneers 75 hours in 2 weeks.

Going to Bethel was like going in the Army. You had to sign up for a 5 year hitch.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

A Christian

OK I get it. You are in the process of figuring out exactly what you believe.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

A Christian:

The word "freedom" or "captivity" is not mentioned in Revelation 18. So why does this become a central part of your interpretation?

The command is "Get out of her my people". What are God's people doing in "false religion" or "false christianity"? If they have the label "my people" than they are free of any enslaving deception. The command to "Get out of her" is given to those who have already left behind the enslaving ideas of this world.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

A Christian:

I don't care what people choose to discuss on a thread that I start. I'm not territorial. My objections are not with you. You aren't claiming that it is impossible for Babylon the Great to be a political entity. Are you?

The Watchtower claims that Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity. And I have rebutted the fallcious reasoning used to make their claim.

Now you claim that Babylon the Great is a religious entity. And you make that claim even though Revelation 18 never uses the word "religion". It doesn't mention idols. It doesn't mention altars, temples, priests. So there is little evidence for your claim.

I'm alright with that as long as you don't make the argument that Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity.

15

Did Adam know the full consequences of his sin?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

"through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

" romans 5:12. this verse has been used to prove that adam was responsible for sin and death.. from a christian standpoint, this is true.

did adam really know the full effects of eating the forbidden fruit?.

proplog2

The dilemmas and paradoxes that result from believing this story is true prove to me that it is a myth.

And to think that the story of Adam & Eve stands in the way of accepting evolution!!!!

11

How would you define "having faith", as the bible talks about?

by JH in

jw
friends

does having faith mean, believeing any religion, no matter what your intelligence permits you to think is right?.

proplog2

Faith is having regular visits from Angels like Abraham experienced.

I would have faith too, if I had a visit or two from superhuman spirits.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

Christian:

Please read threads completely before you comment.

141

Maybe There's a Heaven...

by LittleToe in

i don't often open up discussions on my beliefs or experiences in life, but i feel a need, so please excuse me if you feel it untoward.

neither is this a poxy swan-song, i'm just opening up my heart a little.. today i had cause to reflect on a conversation i had with my [now ex-]wife shortly after my epithany.

everything was so new and unknown.

proplog2

LT:

Well I finally see what I'm doing wrong. We get in a helping mode. We want to direct another person in their journey. You had an experience. You have disclosed as much as you care to.

It is natural to spin the metaphors and go to one's taxonomy and classify things. We then play the Procrustes game of fitting people to our beds.

When you figure it out let me know exactly what you figured out.