in my wanderings around the net i have discovered some very interesting things.
this particular piece is based on a training session for colporteurs during the believers in the atonement sacrifice of christ convention held in ashbury park new jersey july 22-29, 1906. .
i will bold some of their comments that i found interesting and will add my comments in red.
My mother was a JW her whole life now in her 90's. She said her family had colporteurs eating with them regularly - so they got their meals free.
One of them even said that when he couldn't make money anymore selling books he was going to quit.
I say a worker is worthy of his wages.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
The Listener:
The Pioneer book and other "exclusive" publications are an irritation. When you bring this up those who have these say "there's really nothing in them that you can't find in other publications". This is all the more reason why they shouldn't be controlled publications.
Training schools and seminars should be available to anyone who wants to sign up. Such activities would generate skills and along with improved skills comes a desire to apply them.
But apparently Jehovah likes an organization that plays these games instead of getting the job done.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
James:
The Falun Gong (probably spelled wrong) have been a significant movement in China and other parts of Asia. They have pacifists teachings and number close to 100 million members. Maybe that's God's Work.
Bahais emerged in another market where JW's haven't been sucessful - Moslem World They too see themselves as above the divisions of this world.
Maybe they will converge with JW's? NOT! (sorry for the 1980's cynical structure)
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
Blondie:
Thanks for your input. Good points. There is definitely a disconnect between words and deeds.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
James
The question here is not the worlds perception of JW's. But the dedication of JW's to their stated goals and purposed.
Jesus didn't give a damn what people thought about him. He said it would be almost impossible for a rich person to get into the kingdom of heaven.
Wide is the path to destruction. Narrow the way to life. The rich young ruler was discouraged because he had many possesions. JW's could add tons of members if they eliminated any of their "fences".
Since Jesus preached and practiced self-sacrifice it is strange that JW's have never developed organization procedures for making the best use of man power and resources. Current themes of self-sacrifice could easily be elaborated:
Brother Bright Student turned down his fully paid scholarship to MIT to pioneer.
Brother Businessman sold his prosperous business and now works part time as a consultant to the new owner to pioneer.
Sister Menopause had an empty nest so she decided to pioneer.
Sister Talented Singer gave up a career in music to pioneer.
But when have they said:
We have a new program for those who want to expand their service:
Groups of six families have sold their 4 bedroom homes and purchased a six-family apartment building. They all live together and share baby-sitting and food purchases so that they all can live off of part-time income and pioneer. We want to encourage this brothers and sisters. For this reason we have published a handbook of guidelines that will help you do this successfully. In the coming months we would like to see service communities of this sort all over the world. What a wonderful way for the Master of the Harvest to arrange for more workers in the field. (loud applause?)........
I am suggesting something more than the fact that JW's have not been very innovative in creating facilitative structures. I am saying that they don't have the help of God nor are they REALLY willing to rely on Jehovah to provide. After 120 years of this you would think they would be able to be a little more creative.
Jehovah's Witnesses have shown that they will do anything they are told.
So here is the real question. If JW's are exemplary in their zeal compared to other religions, then doesn't that mean that Jehovah has been unable to keep the fire going that Jesus started? "Luke 12:49 I came to start a fire on the earth"
Apparently the stones aren't speaking out either. Conclusion: there is NO evidence for a God who cares about saving as many lives as possible.
in a recent thread blondie mentioned that the baptism questions were not introduced until the 1960s.
what do an interested person have to do prior to then in order to be allowed to be baptised?.
it got me thinking about the wts justification for the questions.
The only requirement for baptism was enough water to totally submerge a person. Oh yes. They needed a bathing suit and a towel. Baptisms could be performed anytime NOT just at assemblies. If someone wanted to get baptized they got baptized.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
james_woods:
They don't take it seriously because they hedge their bets. They don't really believe God will take care of them. They give lip service to the importance of the preaching work but they don't set up the structures that would make it possible for so many who would do more but just don't have the means. One of the structures would be communal arrangements sponsored by the Watchtower besides those at Bethel. How hard would it be to build a Kingdom Hall with a common kitchen and a bunk room that could sleep 10 to 20 people. They do it at branch homes. There is more than enough money to do something like that if they followed the principle of being content with sustenance and covering.
How hard would it be for families to move out of their spacious ranch homes and invest in multitennant housing where 4 to 6 families could pool their resources. No one would be stopped from doing this. But there are no suggestions, examples, experiences, encouragement to do something extraordinary to carry on the door to door work.
I'm not saying the door to door work is the best way. It certainly has generated publicity and new members. But as long as they believe the end is very near and that there is a shortage of harvest workers, and that human lives will be lost if people aren't contacted, shouldn't they be putting forth extraordinary efforts?
The fact that they fall short on this hints to me that Jehovah isn't really interested that all men get saved and more likely that there is no Jehovah at all. Please remember this is being framed in the context of the claims made by JW's.
You said that JW's take it more seriously than other religions. So what. If they believe they have the truth there should be a discernible difference. But it doesn't go far enough IF they really believe in their commission to save lives.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
Surfrusty:
Needless to say the first century christians weren't anymore serious about their commission than are JW's. But there was a principle of sharing.
2 Corinthians 8:15 Just as it is written: "The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little."
Another thing to think about is that a lot of people lived communally back then. Having your own house was a luxury. Extended families crowded into very tight quarters.
The western style of living in the USA and Europe is overly extravagant. There is a huge abundance that is wasted and justified by the idea that you dedicate your whole heart, mind and body BUT your money is ALL yours.
There are rich and poor at Bethel. Those with rich relatives had nice automobiles, clothes and party money. Those who lived off the allowance have their faith.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
About communalism.
Acts: 4:32 Moreover the multitude of those who had believed had one heart and soul, and not even one would say that ANY of the things he possessed was his own; but they had all things in common. 34 In fact, there was not ONE in need among them; for all those who were possessors of fields or houses would sell them and bring the values of the things sold and the would deposit them at the feet of the apostles. In turn distribution would be made to each one just as he would have the need.
Some try to discount this as a special situation. But who knows how long it went on? Jesus shared a money box with his entourage. Paul bragged that he had the right to ask for financial support but that he supported himself so that no one could feel he was in any way a burden.
The new believers in Jerusalem thought Jesus' return was close. As time went on and Jesus didn't return it would have been hard to live that way. People had to hedge their bets.
But if JW's believe the end is 5 or 10 years away , REALLY BELIEVE, then you would expect extraordinary efforts to save lives. Communalism would be a small inconvenience for what it could accomplish.
It's kind of like the comment Schindler makes at the end of the move Schindler's List. Fondling his gold ring he laments how many Jews could he have saved if he would have sold his ring.
there has been a lot of discussion about the claim that the gb feel they have fullfilled their obligation to preach.. this would be no surprise.
jesus said if you want to really do what is right you need to sell your property and give to the poor.
and then... you could follow jesus.. after pentecost there was an arrangement where an individual could sell his property and give the proceeds to the apostles.
Willy:
I looked up what Pat Robertsons Christian Broadcasting Network spends. $200 million dollars. If every publisher contributed $36.00 per year they could have their message beamed everywhere. Thirty-six dollars per year. Let's say that only 1 million JW's (those in the USA) could afford that much money. That would be $200 per publisher. At $8.00 per hour (Fast food chain wages) that would be 25 hours per year. JW's could STILL go out door knocking all they want AND have this powerful communications giant working for them. $200 is about half of what the average witness family spends on rooms and food at district conventions.
Has anyone told Jehovah about this? You know Moses had to intervene with Jehovah so he didn't kill off the Israelites in a fit of anger. Maybe no one made out a spread sheet and laid it out before Jehovah when he would be relaxed and receptive. Jehovah wouldn't even have to pay for it. All he has to do is make the GB "think" that's what he wants.
