Posts by proplog2

In the earlier days of the Internet and On-Line servcies the bulletin boards were filled with a healthy mixture of JW's who would try to defend themselves. This is completely shut down. Not so much because the Watchtower condemns it but because JW's generally can't defend their beliefs. They give up.

I am not interested in going to another forum to discuss these things. I want maximum exposure for anything I take the time to write. I hardly ever check out the other discussion boards. I check off e-mail notification for replies. So if you want to challenge any assertion I make - it will have to be here.

19

peacable = true religion

by Moxy in

jw
friends

please help me out a bit with this.. jws, as a religion, are taught to live peacably.

they do not go to war nor will they generally support it.. now, if i were to play the role of an apologist, i think i would just keep hamering on this point.

"catholic killing catholic and protestant killing protestant" was such a great phrase and ties in so nicely with johm 13:35. now, let me play devils advocate and hear some rebuttals.

proplog2

Ballistic:

There are scriptures in the Bible that refer to a group called "the holy ones".

This group of "holy ones" have a significant role in what the bible calls the "last days".

If you believe in the Bible then you had better identify these "holy ones".

The Bible indicates that this would not be difficult because they would "shine" in a spiritual sense.

JW's are unique in their relationship to the rest of the world. One of the things that make them unique is their "neutrality".

That's the point I am trying to make.

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

proplog2

Alan:

Good point. In the convenional definition - God - has some specific characteristics - omniscient, omnipotence. It is this definition that forces me into the position of being an atheist.

I am still open to the possibility that we are not alone in the universe.

27

Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP

by patio34 in

jw
friends

one comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!

) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.

" what are some answers to that?

proplog2

Dungbeetle:

You could conclude that the "crazy" governing body decisions have some colateral benefit.

Wrong dates: You need wrong dates to sustain an organization in a kind of emergency status for the 100+ years it takes to attract a significant number of people.

Blood Transfusion: Refusal of blood tranfusions may have saved as many lives as have been lost. (Who Knows?) Advantage: every member makes a life and death decision and therefore is more committed to the over-all effort.

Prison time served because of refusal to do alternative service: Strengthened the resolve of organization to avoid even the appearance of compromise.

It is clear that if JW's were only interested in members they would have an entirely different set of doctrines.

27

Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP

by patio34 in

jw
friends

one comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!

) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.

" what are some answers to that?

proplog2

Waiting:

The blood thing is really screwed up. The intentions are good. Of course the Sanhedrin had good intentions when they decided to kill Jesus. As far as the hierarchy among JW's... I think they REALLY believe their policy on blood. When they see their errors I think they will change that policy. Does anyone have solid evidence that a Majority of the GB believe their blood teachings are wrong?

I personally believe its ok to drink blood if that's a traditional part of your diet (Masai tribe) and it doesn't stumble anyone in your presence.

The Jews still believe in ritual mutilation ie. circumcision. If you believe in the Bible, that crazy practice doesn't disqualify them from being the chosen nation.

27

Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP

by patio34 in

jw
friends

one comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!

) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.

" what are some answers to that?

proplog2

Seeker:

No one has the "truth". But I believe these are significant differences between JW's and other so-called Christian religions.

19

peacable = true religion

by Moxy in

jw
friends

please help me out a bit with this.. jws, as a religion, are taught to live peacably.

they do not go to war nor will they generally support it.. now, if i were to play the role of an apologist, i think i would just keep hamering on this point.

"catholic killing catholic and protestant killing protestant" was such a great phrase and ties in so nicely with johm 13:35. now, let me play devils advocate and hear some rebuttals.

proplog2

Jehovah's Witnesses have accomplished something extraordinary. Considering that they emerged and evolved in the midst of the greatest turmoil the world has ever experienced it is amazing that they have not picked up the sword to kill their fellow man.

You can hate the Jehovah of the old testament but Christ more than makes up for it by his willingness to die for his fellow man. Jehovah's Witnesses stand alone on this issue.

I would like to hear the usual bunch of critics contribute to this thread. Tear away!

27

Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP

by patio34 in

jw
friends

one comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!

) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.

" what are some answers to that?

proplog2

Those who condemn JW's need to account for a few extraordinary things when combined identify them with the behavior of early Chrisitans.

1. Love for mankind that leaps international boundaries. No other organization on earth has united such a diversity of nationalities. They follow Christs example in remaining neutral in the worlds affairs yet as Paul did they utilize their privileges in a civil society to facilitate their preaching work.

2. They have the courage to excommunicate those who practice wrong.

3. They are outstanding examples of people who use persuasion not the Sword (Catholics Moslems and others) to bring others into their fold. They have done this publicly and in the homes. Even systematically dividing areas into territories to make sure all have an opportunity.

4. Througout their history they have asserted that the end of the world is near. The end has not come "yet". Like good watchmen they have sometimes shot at shadows but nevertheless they have been on duty.

5. They universally would rather die than break god's laws. Blood Transfusions although an over-zealous attempt to be faithful still demonstrates their willingness to put their life on the line. At least they didn't die defending a symbol sewn from cloth.

Jesus had his critics too.

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

proplog2

What about the possibility of a not-so-powerful "god" or "gods". What about the possibility of a less-than-all knowing "god" or "gods"?

Might the drama unfolding on earth have occured millions of times in the universe? Could there be a civilization somewhere that has a couple thousand years lead on us? Couple million years maybe?

Such would certainly appear "god-like" to us.

I am inclined to believe that this is the case. There are certain themes and prophecies in the Bible that cannot be explained by simple coincidence.

I will try to make that case in a future post.