Posts by proplog2

19

The.....2nd Coming....of Jesus.....WHEN?

by Terry in

concerning the 2nd coming of christ i'll say this.. nobody understood the first coming.

what makes you think those people knew anything at all about a 2nd coming?

if any part of the bible messege wasn't garbled it's clear the apostles and 1st century christians who should have/might have been privvy to information of this nature didn't know squat!

proplog2

Wow. That's the worst free association bullshit I think I've ever written.

19

The.....2nd Coming....of Jesus.....WHEN?

by Terry in

concerning the 2nd coming of christ i'll say this.. nobody understood the first coming.

what makes you think those people knew anything at all about a 2nd coming?

if any part of the bible messege wasn't garbled it's clear the apostles and 1st century christians who should have/might have been privvy to information of this nature didn't know squat!

I continue to search to see if there is anything of value in the Bible. From the start I need to make it clear that I’m not doing this as an apologist I’m doing this as a person who has spent a lifetime assimilating Bible interpretations of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Along with this is the experience of disappointment from putting too much confidence in what a body of men claiming godly authority have decided.

At this point in time I am basically agnostic. I believe in evolution. I believe the Bible can be discredited as being the work of someone who created everything in the universe, understands everything , knows all, and if it is a work of such an entity it is not reflected in the many narratives and accounts in the Bible.

But at the same time I want to avoid the mistake of certainty. A lot of people out of frustration and disappointment find it so easy to throw the whole thing out, and consider the Bible as a total waste of time. If you’re going to do that you are buying into the idea that either it is ALL true or NONE of it is true. It’s either useful in all of its pages or its useless or of minimal use as any kind of moral guide or history. The main idea of religion, from my perspective is a system of salvation or survival. Religion has always claimed there is some greater reward for doing good and that there is survival in knowing the sacred communications. So it is in the spirit of looking for something in the book or collection of books we call the Bible, that in some way leads to a salvation of some sort.

The Bible doesn’t have a consistent moral theme. There are various chapters that appear to be immoral and highlight the inconsistencies of the people. Lot and his wife , Judah with Tamar, various acts of polygamy, having sexual relations with one’s maid servant. The abuse of people they conquered. Enslaving and having sex against the will of the women that were captured. A lot of apologists will say there was a moderating effect of certain rules but we’re not just talking about people who ought to stand out amongst their contemporaries - they should be exemplary, And if God is indeed shaping the culture and has the power to punish and the power to read hearts he should have been able to effect a much better situation.

So there is no need to go to the Bible. The Bible is not defensibile or useful as a moral guide any more than the common sense - you’re going to get in trouble with someone if you take someone’s wife/property, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong murder is wrong. There is nothing unique in these conclusions. All of the religious books and tribal elders on earth have reached very similar conclusions. So morality is not a unique or special benefit from reading and believing in the Bible.

The history is not completely trustworthy because it is not verifiable. Places, general time periods, may be established but whether the Red Sea actually parted or whether Moses was able to bring water out of a rock or any of these other things - who can say. There is no way of verifying these events unless you assume to begin with what you are trying to prove namely that the Bible is God’s Word. This is no different from the Moslems and the Koran the Hindu’s and their Vedas. If you want to believe in miracles there are a lot of miracles that you can believe in.

I want to proceed with the idea that the Watchtower is wrong for all the right reasons.

Once you separate the Bible from the concept of an Almighty God you do away with all those other "Why didn’t he do it this way" issues. Why wasn’t he more explicit if he’s all powerful. All these questions that are dependent on the notion of a supreme being create insurmountable difficulties in trying to accept anything in the context of the Bible.

Of course then if you don’t accept that these words were authored by a supreme being – GOD – then you still have to come up with an explanation other than God. I don’ believe that would be too hard. If something is not from a human/earthly source and its not from some imaginary construct such as a deity then you are left with everything else that might exist in the universe. And then if you raise the same questions at that point you’re off the hook. You don’t have to stand there with your mouth hanging open when someone asks why didn’t these aliens extraterrestrial aliens do it another way? The point is either they didn’t choose to do it another way or this is this is the most expedient way and therefore they couldn’t do it any other way. It keeps all of those questions from being raised. Perhaps it doesn’t keep them from being raised but it allows you to address them and reach a certain point where you can proceed even though you don’t have the answers.

14

Has anyone stuck with it despite all of this?

by Cass in

hi all, i know this must have already been discussed, but i'm just wondering if there is anyone here who has just kept going to meetings and the rest of it, just so that they don't lose their family?

thanks in anticipation of a response

proplog2

I am going to ride the ship into the rocks. There is room in my cosmology for a book like the Bible and a group that survive a great future catastrophe.

And if nothing happens I want to be around to comfort my fellow self-delusioned souls.

19

The.....2nd Coming....of Jesus.....WHEN?

by Terry in

concerning the 2nd coming of christ i'll say this.. nobody understood the first coming.

what makes you think those people knew anything at all about a 2nd coming?

if any part of the bible messege wasn't garbled it's clear the apostles and 1st century christians who should have/might have been privvy to information of this nature didn't know squat!

proplog2

Terry:

Don't be so sure. The nay-sayers are all dead too.

In recorded history man has never been in such great danger.

The arrival of the nuclear age changed everything.

The past does not equal the future.

Revelation talks about a great beast empire that appears to die but is revived. As it reemerges it appears lamb-like but then reverts to its dragon like behavior.

This particular beast is the seventh in a specific sucession of empires. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Russia/Soviet Union

The eighth is the revived seventh.

Babylon the Great , the rich hegemon USA dominates the world.

The eighth empire destroys the USA.

Those that recognize this will flee the USA when the disgusting nuclear desolater hits sacred USA ground.

Don't worry Terry. Those who die during the tribulation will get a resurrection. Only the Wild Beast & False Prophet are thrown into everlasting destruction. The dead will be brought back and judged individually.

So go back to shelving books and enjoy your life.

7

Do the JWs worship a 'Satanic' God??

by Gill in

if animal sacrifices is considered 'satanic/pagan/occultish' practice, then why do the jws worship a god who demanded animal sacrifices and still consider that blood be poured on the ground or discarded as a sacrifice to god?.

following the wtbts practice of following everything back to its source (supposedly) to discover why it was done and then label it as satanic, why do they still continue their obsession with blood?.

proplog2

JW's worship a God that asks them to die AND let their children die over an ancient symbol for life.

The ritual use of blood takes precedence over everything.

11

SOON! SOON! How SOON is SOON?

by Little Bo Peep in

in reading over drew sagan's post this am, we were discussing how often the wt says soon.

it is really brought to the fore when you read his post.

it's now been over 92 years since their 1914 date.

proplog2

Narkissos:

Wasn't John under the delusion of the rumor that he would NOT die but would be alive when Christ arrived?

John 21:22 "If it is my will for him to remain until I come of what concern is that to you...In consequence this saying went out among the brothers, that that disciple would not die"

When John says it's the last hour - he offers his own definition of antichrist which is at odds with the general idea that it is a single individual. If you take John's definition of anti-christ its anyone who strays from the flock.

Is there any doubt that the Bible is riddled with the opinions of individual writers.

43

lost

by depressed in

just wondering if anyone else feels the same way.. i've been out of the organization for about 4 years, but i still love jehovah and jesus, and i want to serve them the right way.

does anyone here feel a great sense of religious confusion now that you are not attending meetings?.

at the moment, i feel miserable, since i'm going through a divorce.

proplog2

You are going through some tough times. Don't worry about the religious stuff right now. If you are depressed you had better get some professional help.

Getting your emotional state above the line is the most important thing.

17

"The Game" Neil Strauss

by proplog2 in

for some reason i think this is the bible i should have had when i was a young man.

proplog2

let me guess to get a chick you got to become a con man no thanks !

Is it a con when both people actually get what they want? Sounds like an ordinary transaction. And its not prostitution.

Not every man wins the genetics game. Handsome, strong and tall.

It seems married men owe it to their wives to spend a few hours each week really exciting them.

How many of those genetic wondermen turn out ignorant, insensitive, and boring to the point of death.

17

"The Game" Neil Strauss

by proplog2 in

for some reason i think this is the bible i should have had when i was a young man.

proplog2

Nosferatu:

Where is elsewhere's thread? I didn't know this had already been discussed.

17

"The Game" Neil Strauss

by proplog2 in

for some reason i think this is the bible i should have had when i was a young man.

proplog2

Serendipity: Smart women like you are most vulnerable to their techniques. Their techniques were designed to win the hearts of intelligent women NOT the typical bar girls that are so ADD they won't get it.

What impressed me is the amount of effort these guys put out to transform themselves and get over their fears of rejection.

It takes 7 hours for the average Pick-Up artists to get a girl to bed. (Yes they really keep track of this stuff)

Marriage is a real labor saver.

Women have very little to fear. These guys want to entertain you. (Male Geishas) They are the good guys that will never rape.