pseudoxristos

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Posts by pseudoxristos

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  2

  An Interesting Verse from Muslim Teachings:

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following hoax is being sent around in e-mails.

  thanks pseudoxristos for finding "the truth".

  no point in propagating an erumor.

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  pseudoxristos

  That seemed to amazing to be true.

  A quick search on google turned up this info.

  Summary of the eRumorA verse in the Koran, which happens to correspond to the date of the Attack on America, predicts that "the wrath of the Eagle" would be felt throughout the lands of Allah.

  The Truth This is a hoax. The quote is not from anywhere in the Koran (or Quran). Chapter 9 verse 11 actually says "But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and we make the communications clear for a people who know." (M. H. Shakir translation)

  Sorry, but it looks like it's a hoax.

  pseudo
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  50

  Hell

  by onacruse in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was recently asked about my opinion re: hell.. as a born-and-raised jw i obviously never believed in hell-fire torment.

  actually, i refuse to believe in such a thing.

  for many years my favorite response to the idea was "i would rather burn in hell than worship a god who would create such a place.".

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  pseudoxristos

  The Idea that Greek mythology influenced Christendom’s belief in a literal hell is only partially correct. Witnesses would have us believe that these beliefs were adopted sometime after the first century. In reality, Greek thought had already permeated Jewish thought prior to the first century. The fact that the NT was written in Greek demonstrates the extent of the influence.

  Jewish literature prior to the NT had already incorporated Greek ideas concerning Hell. But, according to Witnesses, the NT does not teach a literal hell, even when it clearly parallels these writings.

  The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha do not present a completely coherent picture of Hell, but the following is a general summary of their concepts:

  Hades contains several areas or compartments for the dead. The faithful will be received by Abraham in the area generally referred to as Paradise. The wicked will be sent to another area where they will be tormented (Interestingly, one of the pleasures of paradise will be the ability to observe the punishment of the wicked). The wicked are prevented from passing over to the Paradise side. All will be judged; the faithful will be resurrected to live again, while the wicked will be destroyed.

  The following quotes from the apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha should be sufficient to show that this foreign influence had already found it's way into Jewish thought years before the development of the New Testament.

  The Apocalypse of Zephaniah 10

  (1)Then the great angel came to me with the golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it up to heaven. (2)Heaven opened from the place where the sun rises to where it sets, from the north to the south. (3)I saw the sea which I had seen at the bottom of Hades. Its waves came up to the clouds. (4)I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. (5)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray." (6)And I saw others covered with mats of fire. (7)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest." (8)And I also saw some blind ones crying out. And I was amazed when I saw all these works of God. (9)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are catechumens who heard the word of God, but they were not perfected in the work which they heard." (10) And I said to him, "Then do they not have repentance here?" He said, "Yes." (11)I said, "How long?" He said to me, "Until the day when the Lord will judge." (12)And I saw others with their hair on them. (13)I said, "Then there is hair and body in this place?" (14) He said, "Yes, the Lord gives body and hair to them as he desires."

  The Apocalypse of Zephaniah 10

  (1)And I also saw multitudes. He brought them forth. (2)As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty, saying, "We pray to you on account of those who are in all these torments so that you might have mercy on all of them." (3) And when I saw them, I said to the angel who spoke with me, "(Who are these?)" (4)He said, "These who beseech the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. (5)Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel. He sounds a trumpet up to heaven and another sound upon the earth. (6)All the righteous hear the sound. They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these torments."

  Testament of Abraham 12

  (1)While he was yet saying these things to me, behold (there were) two angels, with fiery aspect and merciless intention and relentless look, and they drove myriads of souls, mercilessly beating them with fiery lashes. (2)And the angel seized one soul. And they drove all the souls into the broad gate toward destruction. (3)Then we too followed the angels and we came inside that broad gate. (4)And between the two gates there stood a terrifying throne with the appearance of terrifying crystal, flashing like fire. (5)And upon it sat a wondrous man, bright as the sun, like unto a son of God. (6)Before him stood a table like crystal, all of gold and byssus. (7)On the table lay a book whose thickness was six cubits, while its breadth was ten cubits. (8)On its right and on its left stood two angels holding papyrus and ink and pen. (9)In front of the table sat a light-bearing angel, holding a balance in his hand. (10)[On] (his) left there sat a fiery angel, altogether merciless and relentless, holding a trumpet in his hand, which contained within it an all-consuming fire (for) testing the sinners. (11)And the wondrous man who sat on the throne was the one who judged and sentenced the souls. (12)The two angels on the right and on the left recorded. The one on the right recorded righteous deeds, while the one on the left (recorded) sins. (13)And the one who was in front of the table, who was holding the balance, weighed the souls. (14)And the fiery angel, who held the fire, tested the souls. (15)And Abraham asked the Commander-in-Chief Michael, "What are these things which we see?" And the Commander-in-chief said, "These things which you see, pious Abraham, are judgment and recompense." (16)And behold, the angel who held the soul in his hand brought it before the judge. (17)And the judge told one of the angels who served him, "Open for me this book and find for me the sins of this soul." (18)And when he opened the book he found its sins and righteous deeds to equally balanced, and he neither turned it over to the tortures nor (placed it among) those who were being saved but he set it in the middle.

  Greek Apocalypse of Ezra 4

  (1)And the prophet said, "Lord, I shall never cease arguing the case with you." (2)And God said, "Count the flowers of the earth. (3)If you can count them you also will be able to argue the case with me."(4)And the prophet said, "Lord, I cannot count them-I bear human flesh-but neither will I stop arguing the case with you. (5)I wish, Lord, to see the lower parts of Tartarus." (6)And God said, "Go down and see!" (7)And he gave me Michael and Gabriel and thirty-four other angels. (8)and I descended eighty-five steps and they led me down five hundred steps.

  Received by Abraham

  4 Maccabees

  13 Now, therefore, if the seven brothers scorned suffering even unto death, it must be universal conceded that the pious reason is complete master of the passions. (2)For if being enslaved to the passions they had eaten unclean food, we would have said that they had been conquered by them. (3)However, in this case it did not happen so, but by the reason which is commended by God they prevailed over the passions, (4)and so we cannot but perceive the mind's supremacy over them since they overcame both passion and sufferings. (5)How then can we fail to admit, in regard to these men, right reason's victory over the passions, seeing that they did not shrink from the pains of fire? (6)Even as towers at the entrance to harbors repulse the threatening onslaughts of the waves and provide a calm haven for those who sail into it. (7)so the seven-towered right reason of the youths fortified the have of piety and tamed the rugged license of the passions. (8)They formed a holy choir of piety as they encouraged each other with the words, (9)"Let us die like brothers all, brothers, for the Law's sake. Let us follow the example of the three youths in Assyria, who despised the same trial by ordeal in the furnace. Let us not be pusillanimous in the demonstration of true piety." (10,11)"Courage, brother!" said one, and another, "Hold on nobly!" (12)And another, recalling the past, said, "Remember whence you came and at the hand of what father Isaac gave himself to be sacrificed for piety's sake." (13)Each one severally and all together, looking at each other with most cheerful mien, aglow with courage, said, "With all our hearts let us consecrate ourselves unto God, who gave us our souls, and let us expend our bodies for the custodianship of the Law. (14)Let us have no fear of him who thinks he kills. (15)Great is the ordeal and peril of the soul that lies in wait in eternal torment for those who transgress the commandment of God. (16)Let us then arm ourselves with the control over the passions which comes from divine reason. (17)After our death in this fashion Abraham and Isaac and Jacob will receive us, and all our forefathers will praise us." (18)And to each one of the brothers as they were dragged away, those who were left said, "Do not shame us, brother, nor be traitor to our brothers who have already died."

  2 Esdras 7

  (26)'Listen! The time shall come when the signs I have foretold will be seen; the city which is now invisible shall appear and the country now concealed be made visible. (27)Everyone who has been delivered from the evils I have foretold shall see for himself my marvelous acts. (28)My son the Messiah shall appear with his companions and bring four hundred years of happiness to all who survive. (29)At the end of that time, my son the Messiah shall die, and so shall all mankind who draw breath. (30)Then the world shall return to its original silence for seven days as at the beginning of creation, and no one shall be left alive. (31)After seven days the age which is not yet awake shall be roused and the age which is corruptible shall die. (32)The earth shall give up those who sleep in it, and the dust those who rest there in silence; and the storehouses shall give back the souls entrusted to them. (33)Then the Most High shall be seen on the judgment-seat, and there shall be an end of all pity and patience. (34)Judgment alone shall remain; (35)truth shall stand firm and faithfulness be strong; requital shall at once begin and open payment be made; good deeds shall awake and wicked deeds shall not be allowed to sleep. (36)Then the place of torment shall appear, and over against it the place of rest; the furnace of hell shall be displayed, and on the opposite side the paradise of delight.

  Various notes:

  Jewish Martyrs believed that: "After our death in this fashion Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will receive us and all our forefathers will praise us" (4 Maccabees 13:17 in J.H. Charlesworth, The OT Pseudepigrapha, Doubleday, 1983).

  "You have escaped from the abyss and Hades, you will now cross over the crossing place... then he ran to all the righteous ones, namely Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Enoch, Elijah and David" (Apocalypse of Zephaniah 9:2. Charlesworth, op. cit.).

  Now, for the Pharisees, they live meanly, and despise delicacies in diet; and they follow the conduct of reason; and what that prescribes to them as good for them, they do; and they think they ought earnestly to strive to observe reason's dictates for practice. They also pay a respect to such as are in years; nor are they so bold as to contradict them in anything which they have introduced; and, when they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of men can act virtuously or viciously. They also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again; on account of which doctrines, they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they perform them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities gave great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also. (The Antiquities of the Jews Book 18, Chapter 1)

  pseudo

  edited to add highlights

  edited to change font
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  25

  Tell me why I bother?????

  by asleif_dufansdottir in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  (i used to be a truck driver.

  trust me.

  i have the vocabulary).

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  pseudoxristos

  Here's the link.

  http://www.beliefnet.com/

  You have to navigate to
  Home > Community > Discussions > Jehovah's Witnesses > Jehovah's Witnesses Challenge & Critique

  The following link might work.

  http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=28082

  have fun

  pseudo
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  25

  Tell me why I bother?????

  by asleif_dufansdottir in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  (i used to be a truck driver.

  trust me.

  i have the vocabulary).

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  pseudoxristos

  LOL, They're nutty over there.

  I signed up, and gave oldgrm my 2 cents on RedHorse Womans theard "Interesting Quote". I really don't expect a reply.

  pseudo
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  32

  A question for christians

  by IronGland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if there are any christians here,i have a question.

  why didn't jesus write anything down?

  was he illiterate?did he write it down and the papers get lost?

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  pseudoxristos

  According to the gospel of Luke, Jesus could read.

  16 And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Esaias was given to him; and having unrolled the book he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor; he has sent me to preach to captives deliverance, and to the blind sight, to send forth the crushed delivered, 19 to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Luke 4:16-19 (Darby's)

  Interestingly though, the gospel of John suggests that the Jesus had not been taught to read. Although John does show that Jesus taught in the temple, he does not record the event where Jesus reads from the book of Isaiah.

  14 But when it was now the middle of the feast, Jesus went up into the temple and taught. 15 The Jews therefore wondered, saying, How knows this man letters, having never learned? 16 Jesus therefore answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but that of him that has sent me. John 7:14-16 (Darby's)

  The gospels indicate several times that Jesus taught in the synagogues. His method of teaching in the synagogues would most likely have been the same method he used while instructing his Disciples. From the many examples of Jesus’ teaching of the Disciples, there is no indication that he is reading from the Scriptures. Like many of his contemporaries he instructed using an oral tradition, full of stories, parables and inexact quotes to make his points.

  The literacy rate for Jews in the first century was most likely less than 10%. With Jesus’ lower social standing it is reasonable to conclude that he was illiterate.

  A simple explanation for Luke 4:16; is that Luke stretched the truth in an attempt to put Jesus on par with the current Jewish teachers.

  pseudo

  Illiteracy in the Land of Israel in the first centuries c.e.

  …..

  For example we can observe data of illiteracy gathered from different societies in the first half of the 20th century: Turkey 1927: 91.8%; Egypt 1927: 85.7%; South Africa 1921: 90.3%; India 1921: 90.5%; Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia before 1950: above 90%. Our question is, what can be learned from these rates of modern illiteracy that concern ancient illiteracy, from societies before their industrial revolutions? In other words, can't a tentative conclusion be drawn that in ancient 'traditional' societies the rate of literacy was less than 10%?

  Certainly, there is no definite answer to such a question, and maybe there is no comparison between 20th century Egypt and the Land of Israel in the first century. An examination of the data in Egypt would reveal that if ancient Jewish literacy was somewhat around 5%, then the modern figures of 10% in Egypt are an exaggeration of 100%. Nonetheless, the modern figures might give us an idea concerning the literacy rate we are dealing with in pre-industrial ancient society: the Jews in the Land of Israel in Late Antiquity. …… http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~barilm/illitera.html
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  19

  JW Superstitions

  by sandy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday i got home and i realized i accidentally brought a necklace with a cross on it from my boyfriend's house.. it was in a regular brown paper bag i put some of my things in.

  i was lying in bed last night thinking about it wondering if i should take it outside.

  i was afraid the demons were going to invade my house.. i decided to leave my tv on all night because we all know the demons will not bother you if your light or tv is on.

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  pseudoxristos

  Don't even think about reading the fortune cookie after eating Chinese.

  I tried this once after eating at a Chinese restaurant with Witnesses. They freaked out, it was if they thought that I was Satan himself.

  Next time Witness come to my door; I think I will offer them some old fortune cookies. I can see them slowly backing away now.

  pseudo
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  18

  Were there other Christs?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  matthew 24:5 .

  5. for many shall come in my name, saying, i am christ; and shall 1deceive many.

  that was written 2000 years ago.

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  pseudoxristos

  <-------waiting for pseudochristos to wade on into this thread

  Craig

  LOL @ ona BTW, I have a condition called wadophobia. It flares up while I'm near water. When I was in my early 30's I tried several times to wade through water, but each time I ended up walking on it instead. Unfortunately this always seemed to draw a large crowd. They keep trying to follow me everywhere I went. I constantly had to remind them that my name is pseudo, but they insisted on calling me xristos. Where in the world do these people get these strange ideas? I ran across this today, and remembered seeing this thread. I thought it might be appropriate.

  In the first century of the Common Era, there appeared at the eastern end of the Mediterranean a remarkable religious leader who taught the worship of one true God and declared that religion meant not the sacrifice of beasts but the practice of charity and piety an the shunning of hatred and enmity. He was said to have worked miracles of goodness, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead. His exemplary life led some of his followers to claim he was a son of God, though he called himself the son of a man. Accused of sedition against Rome, he was arrested. After his death, his disciples claimed he had risen from the dead, appeared to them alive, and then ascended to heaven. Who was this teacher and wonder-worker? His name was Apollonius of Tyana; he died about 98 A.D., and his story may be read in Flavius Philostratus's Life of Apollonius. [1] http://bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/Text/g-fictions.htm pseudo edited to added signature and link (they disappeared, kind of like that time in my early 30's and I was.... oh, never mind. Its a long story)
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  40

  Is the baby being thrown out with the bath water?

  by Chap in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if god spoke to a man and told him to write down what he said, how are we to distinguish this writing from other people who say god spoke to them?

  we know the human beings can lie about anything for any reason.

  if a writing supposedly contains prophesy, some say it wasn't prophesy and was written after the fact.

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  pseudoxristos

  Chap,
  

  Christianity is based on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead. All the Pharisees or the Romans had to do was produce the body and Christianity would have been stopped in its tracks.

  This statement is ridiculous.

  By the time that the Christian movement became large enough for the Pharisees or Romans to notice, the body was long gone. Most of the writings were not produce until late in the first century at best. They were more likely produced early second century. They weren't accepted as canonical until the fourth century.

  There is no way that the Pharisees or Romans would even care about an incoherent group of Jews with a few strange ideas.

  The NT is presented as fact concerning Jesus and the Christian faith. These facts are meant to convince its readers that Jesus is the Christ and that the Christian faith is the only true religion. When skeptics start pointing out problems with these so-called facts, those who still want to believe will switch modes from reliance on facts to reliance on faith.

  It seems pointless to continue the discussion. You're going to believe what you want.

  pseudo
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  37

  What About The Soul?

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't recall that we've ever gotten into this issue; maybe we did and i just don't remember.

  if so, it won't hurt to revisit it; if not, it's way past time that we did.. we were all trained to believe that humankind does not have a soul, but that we are souls.

  this teaching came from the spiritual geniuses abiding at jw headquarters in brooklyn, likely assisted by their undefined "spirit-led" descision making activities and with help from someone's secret decoder ring with the secret compartment.. personally, i have 86-ed that particular piece of nonsense a long time ago.

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  pseudoxristos

  SS,

  Its funny that you would bring up dreams while on the topic of the soul. I believe that it was dreams of the ancient people, in which dead loved ones appeared, that gave them the idea of a soul.

  pseudo
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  37

  What About The Soul?

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't recall that we've ever gotten into this issue; maybe we did and i just don't remember.

  if so, it won't hurt to revisit it; if not, it's way past time that we did.. we were all trained to believe that humankind does not have a soul, but that we are souls.

  this teaching came from the spiritual geniuses abiding at jw headquarters in brooklyn, likely assisted by their undefined "spirit-led" descision making activities and with help from someone's secret decoder ring with the secret compartment.. personally, i have 86-ed that particular piece of nonsense a long time ago.

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  pseudoxristos

  SS,

  LOL

  Do you think I can get my SUV into heaven also?

  pseudo