leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  10

  warning to the WATCHTOWER weary: the way of the july wt is wrong: because

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when you sum those articles up, it is about more boasting, more control and.

  when one looks at the time of greatest increase, it was in the 60s 70, when there was.

  a sharing of power through the rotating overseer arrangement and .

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  leaving_quietly

  He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. - John 7:18
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  28

  John 3:16 - "EXERCISE faith"...??

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the nwt often uses the expression "exercise", when it comes to the expression of faith.. "a notable use of that is in john 3:16 - for god loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.".

  i started to be intrigued by the expression "exercise faith".

  it is true that james wrote that "faith without works is dead", meaning that faith must be more than just an inner feeling or an oral statement; it must be evidenced by works.

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  leaving_quietly

  Interesting. You make a good point. "Exercise" seems inapproriate, as it's not even in the meaning of the Greek word. The word could mean "have faith". I was thinking about James 2:26 a couple of months back, but I was more interested in the "works" part.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/248990/1/James-2-26-faith-without-works-is-dead

  Are works necessary, or faith alone is necessary?

  Depends on what one means by "works". Bottom line, the "works" is not what JWs say it is: preaching, meetings, studying. Instead, it's the works of the spirit. (Gal 5:22,23). If one has faith, but not holy spirit, the works of the spirit will be hard to do . . . perhaps forced, or even faked for show. However, if one has faith and really does have holy spirit, then the works of the spirit will naturally follow. Eventually, the desire to do the works of the flesh will fade away.
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  42

  JULY 15th Study Watchtower - NEW LIGHT IS FANTASY

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the july 15 study watchtower uses all 4 study articles to try to inculcate into every witnesses' mind that the governing body is indisputably god's sole channel of communication on earth.

  to do so, it uses a multitude of scriptures along with seriously flawed un-inspired reasoning.

  the foundation stone of this watchtower's blatant agenda is the claim that when jesus used only a few to dispense the physical food to the many, he was setting a principle which would be applied to the distribution of spiritual food after he returned to heaven.

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  leaving_quietly

  Another point. John 6 is a similar story of Christ feeding thousands. John 6:10-12 has Jesus distributing the food (note, here it does not say his disciples did it), and has his disciples collecting the leftovers.

  Point 1 - Note verses 26 and 27... seems JWs are always satisfied from "spiritual" meal to "spiritual" meal...

  Jesus answered them and said: “Most truly I say to YOU, YOU are looking for me, not because YOU saw signs, but because YOU ate from the loaves and were satisfied. 27?Work, not for the food that perishes, but for the food that remains for life everlasting, which the Son of man will give YOU; for upon this one the Father, even God, has put his seal [of approval].”

  ... but that's just a side point. The real point is next:

  Point 2 - At this time, there were definitely more than 12 disciples. Note verses 60-67:

  Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61?But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble YOU? 62?What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63?It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to YOU are spirit and are life. 64?But there are some of YOU that do not believe.” For from [the] beginning Jesus knew who were the ones not believing and who was the one that would betray him. 65?So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
  66?Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67?Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: “YOU do not want to go also, do YOU?”
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  6

  let me see if i got this straight......thats what she said!!!

  by Lied2NoMore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if a person who gets labelled as "apostate" says something truthful, yet, is unflattering or exposes the wt, it is automatically a lie......... because it came from an.... "apostate".... yet.... if the wt tells a lie, it is the "truth" just because it comes from the wt......and no-one checks to see if it is truthful...... is that right??

  ?.

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  leaving_quietly

  If someone questions WT doctrine, they are "apostate". If the GB questions and subsequently changes WT doctrine, it is "new light". It all depends on who's asking the questions.
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  24

  Have the leaders of JWs ever said 'sorry'?

  by JWB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well have they?

  given that 'we are all imperfect and fall down many times' one would expect them to have made at least some mistakes since rutherford founded the jw religion.

  as christians are supposed to be humble, including those who 'would be great among you', should we not have seen evidence of this over such a long time period?.

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  leaving_quietly

  Just wanted to add that they have said "We are sorry" and "we apologize", but not for what you think.

  We are sorry if these comments caused pain to any of our readers. But it was not our intent to imply that an adulterer can blame his misconduct on his mate. In the box “Who Is Responsible?” we stressed that the adulterer is responsible for his wrongdoing, regardless of “an innocent mate’s imperfections.” The statement in question was part of a discussion of reconciliation. We were simply stressing the need for good communication, encouraging reconciling couples to identify problem areas in their marriage that might need urgent attention. There may also be hidden resentment that needs to be brought out into the open. Usually, such a discussion results in both mates’ admitting to some shortcomings. After all, “we all stumble many times.” (James 3:2) And while such discussions are often very painful, they are, as our article stated, “an important part of the process of restoring trust.”—ED. - g99 12/8 p. 30

  We are sorry if this statement caused some confusion. We did not mean that Mormons believe the sin itself was sexual intercourse, although one might get this impression from the “Book of Mormon” account. (2 Nephi 2:22, 23, 25) Rather, we stated that the sin “involved” sex. How? In that, according to Mormon theology, it paved the way for human procreation. According to the book “Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce R. McConkie, prior to his sin, Adam “could have no children. . . . According to the foreordained plan, Adam was to fall . . . Being mortal he could now have children.” By way of contrast, the Bible does not teach that Adam had to sin in order to procreate. (Genesis 1:28) Nor does it say their fall was due to a foreordained plan of God’s. Instead, it says it was due to their own desire for independence. (Ecclesiastes 7:29) So while we respect the rights of Mormons to believe as they choose, this matter illustrates that the teachings of “The Book of Mormon” are simply not compatible with the Bible.—ED. - g96 6/22 p. 30

  We are sorry if our choice of words gave offense. We used the word “disease” in the very general sense given in “Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary,” namely, “a condition . . . that impairs the performance of a vital function.” —ED. g93 10/8 p. 30

  Quite a few readers called this to our attention, and we are sorry if we caused any alarm among readers sensitive to the issue of child abuse. We believe it is a point well taken. To avoid possible misunderstandings, it might be best if parents described sexual matters as being “private” instead of “secret.”—ED. g92 7/8 p. 30

  We are sorry if we gave the wrong impression. It was not our intention to exclude alternative means of lead removal, such as distillation systems.—ED. g91 2/22 p. 30

  We are sorry if the article caused some misunderstanding. However, the statement was made in reference to Mexico as a whole, not simply to Mexico City.—ED. g91 7/8 p. 30

  We are sorry if the article caused some misunderstanding. Many adoptive parents do a superb job of giving their children needed support and love. However, the article was discussing the possibility that a child put up for adoption might not be raised by Christian standards. Such being the case, an unwed girl should not conclude that she has nothing to offer her child. She can raise him by Bible standards and show him true love—something that is more important than economic advantages.—ED. g90 9/8 p. 30

  We are sorry if the article caused emotional pain to any victims of parental abuse. The article focused on how a youth can cope with, and perhaps avoid provoking, common parental outbursts. By no means did we intend to imply that a child is responsible for behavior such as that described above. Regarding these serious forms of parental abuse, the article said: “A youth is wise to seek outside help, perhaps approaching a Christian elder in his local congregation.”—ED. g89 9/8 p. 30

  23 Seating: At the 1994 “Godly Fear” District Convention, did you note improvement in the matter of saving seats? Some progress has been made, but we still need to be conscious of this reminder: SEATS MAY BE SAVED ONLY FOR YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS AND ANY WHO MAY BE TRAVELING WITH YOU IN YOUR CAR. We are there as guests of the Society. The rental of the auditorium has been paid for by voluntary donations. Would it be loving and considerate to save a seat that we are not sure will be occupied? We are sorry that it will not be possible for us to accommodate requests for separate areas or rooms for those with environmental problems, such as allergies. km 5/95 p. 5 par. 23

  “Awake!” responds: Thank you for bringing this point to our attention. Our heart goes out to anyone who is dealing with serious health problems, and we certainly do not want to add to a person’s suffering by using terms that some may consider to be demeaning. We apologize for any distress this may have caused our readers. g6/12 p. 29

  “Awake!” responds: The writer gathered information from various sources, including personal interviews with former inhabitants of Aguaruna communities and a number of published sources. One of these, Atlas Regional del Perú, 2004 Edition, gives the names and descriptions of five Aguaruna deities. However, as you note, inhabitants of some Aguaruna communities have converted to nominal Christianity. We apologize for any misimpression we may have given. g7/11 p. 23

  and so on...
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  24

  Have the leaders of JWs ever said 'sorry'?

  by JWB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well have they?

  given that 'we are all imperfect and fall down many times' one would expect them to have made at least some mistakes since rutherford founded the jw religion.

  as christians are supposed to be humble, including those who 'would be great among you', should we not have seen evidence of this over such a long time period?.

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  leaving_quietly

  w96 9/15 p. 24

  Practice the Art of Apologizing
  If we make it a practice to apologize when necessary, we are likely to find that people will respond favorably. And perhaps they will even apologize themselves. When we suspect that we have upset someone, why not make it a custom to apologize rather than go to great lengths to avoid admitting any fault? The world may feel that an apology is a sign of weakness, but it really gives evidence of Christian maturity. Of course, we would not want to be like those who acknowledge some wrong yet minimize their responsibility. For instance, do we ever say that we are sorry without meaning it? If we arrive late and make profuse apologies, do we determine to improve our punctuality?

  So, then, do we really need to apologize? Yes, we do. We owe it to ourselves and others to do so. An apology can help to ease the pain caused by imperfection, and it can heal strained relationships. Each apology we make is a lesson in humility and trains us to become more sensitive to the feelings of others. As a result, fellow believers, marriage mates, and others will view us as those who deserve their affection and trust. We will have peace of mind, and Jehovah God will bless us.
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  10

  We just love this new idea

  by Separation of Powers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is probable that if the domestics include the great crowd (other sheep) and the belief is that no fds can be proven to have existed from the death of the last apostle until the reestablished fds in 1918, that most believers from the death of the last apostle or the "dawn" of the 2nd century as the article puts it, will soon be considered other sheep.

  the wheat and the weeds articles makes it a point to use a particular expression.

  it uses "overgrown" where the parable uses oversown.

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  leaving_quietly

  Somebody close to the top had to question the doctrine to begin with, thus this "idea". Therefore, somebody close to the top must have independent thinking. Therefore... well, you get my point.
• 
  13

  Establishing the Premises Regarding "Jehovah's Channel"

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  typically, when the topic of new light arises in discussions with a jw, it come about this way:.

  1. wt critic cites discarded doctrines or false prophecies to the jw in order to undermine his faith in the gb.. 2. jw counters by citing proverbs 4:18, saying that changes are fine because the light gets brighter and brighter.. 3. wt critic gets frustrated because any sort of nonsense can be overlooked via that type of thought-stopping "logic.".

  perhaps a better approach is to start by asking the jw to explain how the "jehovah's channel of communication" process works.

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  leaving_quietly

  Interesting approach. I'd add a question: So, what makes the GB question its own teachings such that it must continue to make changes? Is it Holy Spirit? They were cited as saying there's no hole in the ceiling from which this stuff drops, so then, what is it?
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  19

  Did you "Pray" for a "blessing" and get one?

  by LoisLane looking for Superman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what about all the other 1,001 times you prayed for an intervention/blessing, and didn't get it?

  did you think you were "bad" or just figure god was too busy to bother with you?.

  just lois.

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  leaving_quietly

  An elder in the KH I attend, good man, mild person, out of a job for two years, praying... got nothing. Me? Have a good job with offers for other jobs coming out of my ears. We're in the same industry. He says to me one day (mind you that I stepped aside as an elder), "Jehovah is really blessing you."

  Me = shocked that he would even say that... a person doing his all as a JW and getting squat, and me not and getting everything. What irony!
• 
  42

  JULY 15th Study Watchtower - NEW LIGHT IS FANTASY

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the july 15 study watchtower uses all 4 study articles to try to inculcate into every witnesses' mind that the governing body is indisputably god's sole channel of communication on earth.

  to do so, it uses a multitude of scriptures along with seriously flawed un-inspired reasoning.

  the foundation stone of this watchtower's blatant agenda is the claim that when jesus used only a few to dispense the physical food to the many, he was setting a principle which would be applied to the distribution of spiritual food after he returned to heaven.

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  leaving_quietly

  I'm not sure what the calculation is here, but it occurs to me that using the memorial passing of the bread might be a good indicator. We had over 200 at our memorial and 8 men serving. It took 4-5 minutes to serve all 200 people. It seems like it would be about 6.25 people served per person per minute.

  Using that, 12 people could serve about 75 people per minute.

  Using that, about 4500 people could be served in one hour.

  Granted, the people served at the memorial are all neatly lined up in rows, and the majority are not actually taking anything... just passing the plate along. so the serving is probably as efficient as it could be. Not quite so on a mountain. Also, factor in women and children and the number is definitely higher than 5000.

  Would it be doable in a 1-2 hour time frame with just 12 people serving? Seems like it might be.

  Of course, I think using "few to feed many" is ludicrous. That most certainly was NOT the point.