leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  16

  WT Study for January 6-12, 2014

  by Bobcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as a heads up for those who are present for the wt study of january 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.. pages 12, 13, pp.

  9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security.

  " for a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.. this post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above wt sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the wt understands it..

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  leaving_quietly

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  15

  I mentioned the Candace Conti court case in a letter to a JW

  by Xanthippe in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  so as i've written about this before.

  an old friend of my late husband's suddenly contacted me out of the blue after over twenty years of shunning and we started writing.

  i didn't know why she contacted me but i thought perhaps something had happened in the organisation to make her think, which is why i came on this forum in the first place.. she kept talking about her religion and basically 'witnessing' to me and i replied with just how long are we supposed to wait when it's been nearly 100 years since christ came into his kingdom.

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  leaving_quietly

  Also, the falsehood about "new" scrolls in Rev. 20:12

  Had a conversation with my mother about that last night. She brought it up. I couldn't let it go. I read the verses to her that talked about the scrolls (plural), then another scroll (singular) of life, and how the dead were judged out of the scrolls (plural) according to their deeds. I also showed the time frame the verses state: after the thousand years. She asked if I thought the scrolls were only about judging. I said, the verses seem to indicate that, except for just the one. She said the verses didn't say they were only for judging the dead. I said, "the verses don't say they are about anything else, and if we think that then we are adding to the prophecy." She said, 'well, you are adding to it if you think it's only about judging the dead.' I said, 'I'm just reading the verse, and it says the dead are judged from the things written in the scrolls. I'm just calling it like I see it.'

  That conversation came to an abrupt halt, but at least I was able to actually READ the verses to her to show her what they say, instead of what WT says, especially concerning the timing. Remember, WT teaches the "new scrolls" will be about how to live during the thousand years (w10 4/15 p. 11 par. 17), when the Bible clearly puts the time when these scrolls are opened after the thousand years.
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  15

  Today's WT study

  by piztjw in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so as i looked at the material i was struck by a few thoughts about this article.. par.

  6 glossed over the idea that we can pray for ourselves, or our needs.

  9-11 on one hand they say jesus did not harshly criticize peter or the apostles for falling asleep instead of praying continually, and on the other hand make veiled threats if we should feel tired out by life.

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  leaving_quietly

  Personally, I pray more now than ever before. I do believe there is a God. So, with that said, let me make a few observations of my own. Some of this will sound like I'm an apologist. I'm not. Even WTBTS states useful things some of the time.

  1. Praying for others is something I should do more of, so I appreciate this reminder. But, WTBTS limits it to the brotherhood. Jesus said to even pray for your enemies.

  2. I appreciated the statement in paragraph 17 about "seeking solitude for private prayer." It's hard for me to do that in my home. I find this advice to be useful.

  3. I, too, noted paragraph 13 in saying, "Satan would have us believe that we are worthless." Personally, I have never felt worthless as a human being, and I've never felt worthless in my worship. A sinner, yes, but worthless? No. Depressed, yes, but worthless? No. Who actually puts this idea in our minds? Satan isn't doing that. WTBTS does this through articles like these. If anyone walks away feeling that they should pray more because they feel a little less worthy, then it's WTBTS' fault. I blame no one else but them for planting that idea.

  4. Paragraph 18 contained the everlasting carrot. The very last sentence: "Indeed, we can gain the prize of everlasting life--provided we remain "vigilant with a view to prayers." Nowhere in the Bible does it say everlasting life depends on prayer. Using the word "provided" is inappropriate.
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  93

  Appointed by holy spirit

  by Ben57 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

  it amazes me at what many have said.

  perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

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  leaving_quietly

  Ben57, maybe you should define what you mean by "active role". While this is an interesting debate on this thread, it seems to be a bit lopsided, because we're just not getting what your definition of "active role" is. If you mean that WTS never teaches that the holy spirit enters someone, they jump up and down and act all crazy-like, and then a decision is made, you are right. WTS does not teach that. WTS teaches that holy spirit is 'God's active force' (note the word ACTIVE in there).

  rs p. 381 par. 1:

  The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.

  BTW, WTS does teach that 'bringing back to your minds' as I quoted the verse in John 14:26 above, is an 'active role' of the holy spirit:

  w08 9/1 p. 12:

  The Gospels, as well as the rest of the Christian Greek Scriptures, were not written immediately following the death of Jesus. Matthew apparently wrote his Gospel about 7 or 8 years later, and John wrote his about 65 years later. How were they able to record the words and deeds of Jesus with unerring accuracy? Clearly, God’s holy spirit played an active role in guiding them. (John 14:16, 26)
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  93

  Appointed by holy spirit

  by Ben57 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

  it amazes me at what many have said.

  perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

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  leaving_quietly

  Come on now people get real and use your God give powers of reason none of those quotes that have been given show that the holy spirit (apart form what one knows from the Bible) has any active roll in the sense of a]getting up and doing something. The active roll is simply in people remembering what is already said and then applying what has been said in the Bible

  We have shown you quote after quote that WTS DOES teach this. If you re-read my post, you'll see where the instructor told elders that the holy spirit can act on a person or move a person to do something. If this isn't "active", I don't know what is.

  I want to address this part, specifically, that you said:

  The active roll is simply in people remembering what is already said and then applying what has been said in the Bible

  Now, compare this with what Jesus stated at John 14:25,26:

  While remaining with YOU I have spoken these things to YOU. But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.

  According to Jesus, that IS an active role. Your argument goes against what Christ himself said.

  Whether the holy spirit actually does have any role whatsoever in appointing elders in the JW religion is another issue altogether. However, since you asserted that WTS does not teach that holy spirit has an active role, well, I and many others here disagree. It does teach that.
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  93

  Appointed by holy spirit

  by Ben57 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

  it amazes me at what many have said.

  perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

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  leaving_quietly

  At our week long elder's meeting just two years ago, this came up. The instructor asked: how is it that elders are appointed by holy spirit? From my recollection, here's the basic process.

  1. Elders pray for holy spirit when they are reviewing brothers' qualifications. The holy spirit can act during that meeting on any elder to bring up something that may disqualify a brother.

  2. Elders pray again at the meeting with the C.O. for holy spirit when actually making the recommendation. Holy spirit can act during that meeting, especially on the C.O. as he observes the brother during the week.

  3. When the recommendation is sent into the service department, the brother getting the recommendation form may have something jogged in his memory. Perhaps the brother's name was in front of him before. He will look at the files there at the branch. Holy spirit may direct him to some information that could disqualify a brother.

  4. The brother is approved by the branch, and the approval is sent back. The brother is asked the standard questions about whether there is anything that would prevent him from serving. Holy spirit may act on that brother right then and there if something is a problem.

  Funny, now that I've written it down, it appears that holy spirit takes an active role in deciding whether a brother should NOT be appointed. LOL!

  So, yes, they absolutely teach that elders are appointed by holy spirit. In addition, (not sure whether this was already mentioned), but there is a recent reference to this teaching:

  w12 10/15 p. 14 par. 8:

  Thus, as Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus has full control of the bodies of elders. If someone on a body truly needs correction, the One who has “eyes as a fiery flame” will see to it that this is done in His own time and way. (Rev. 1:14) In the meantime, we maintain proper respect for those appointed by holy spirit, for Paul wrote: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.”—Heb. 13:17.
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  25

  New "Research Guide" released today

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  without a lot of fanfare, the much anticipated "research guide" has been released.. to view it:.

  http://wol.jw.org.

  click on publications.

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  leaving_quietly

  Without a lot of fanfare, the much anticipated "Research Guide" has been released.

  To view it:

  http://wol.jw.org

  Click on Publications

  Click on Research Guide (fourth item down)

  Be ready to be amazed!
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  15

  Keeping you ignorant is the Watchtower Society's POWER over you!

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  quite simply, most jw's are scared as heck of ever reading information critical of the watchtower society.

  deep down they genuinly fear their 'faith' wouldn't stand it.. ignorance and resisting contrary information is the final defense for jw's.

  it is the fall-back position they mentally run to at the slightest bit of criticism.

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  leaving_quietly

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  12

  I just noticed this little change in the NEW New World Translation

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it always made me think when i corinthians 11 was read at the memorial, when jesus said "as often as you keep doing this..." i would think"hmmm, once a year isn't really very often, the other churches are a lot more often than us.".

  great to see that they fixed that to "keep doing this.

  " wouldn't want any doubts, now, would we?.

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  leaving_quietly

  Reasoning book:

  How often is the Memorial to be commemorated, and when?
  Jesus did not specifically state how often it was to be done. He simply said: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:19) Paul said: “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.” (1 Cor. 11:26) “As often” need not mean many times a year; it can mean annually over a period of many years. If you commemorate an important event, such as a wedding anniversary, or if a nation commemorates an important event in its history, how often is it done? Once a year on the anniversary date. This would also be consistent with the fact that the Lord’s Evening Meal was instituted on the date of the Jewish Passover, a yearly celebration that no longer had to be kept by Jews who had become Christians.
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  28

  Why do Jehovah Witnesses hate when you bring up going to Jesus?

  by sheila wright in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  leaving_quietly

  Good verse, Ding. The last time WT even mentioned that one was in 1964.