Exactly what I was thinking, nicolaou.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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103
Additional BOE Letter: Please Be Advised that Further Direction Will Soon be Sent to the Bodies of Elders...
by TTATTelder indear brothers:.
we are writing as a follow-up to the letters dated january 24, 2014, and march 29, 2014,. to all congregations regarding the adjustments now underway to accelerate construction of king-.
dom halls and assembly halls.. .
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The Cat out of the Bag: the story of the release of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
by Terry inwhen jehovah's witnesses began distributing door to door the new world translation beginning in the early 1950's a firestorm of protest broke out in mainstream churches.
the alarm cry was "they've changed the bible to fit their own crooked teachings!".
you can imagine the discord as church members tried to figure out how jehovah's witnesses could prove by reading from the nwt the king james version was full of omissions and errors and outright fraud concerning, for instance, the trinity doctrine or the name of god!!.
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leaving_quietly
This is one of the best posts I've read here in a long, long time. Thanks!
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Speculation on why now?
by Crazyguy inin the last couple of years the org has gone money crazy, selling off over a billion dollars worth of property and now a new tithing program.
just wonder what every one thinks is the reason for all this now?.
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leaving_quietly
Interesting, Doc. I see what you're saying.
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A serving elder's take on the new "tithing" arrangement
by TTATTelder inthe gb can kiss my ass.. i'm writing "0" on the little slip of paper they pass out.. hey here's a thought:.
you know that "widow's might" stuff they're always talking about?
well i'm pretty dang sure that the lady was giving from the heart not because she filled out some dumba$$ piece of paper pledging two small coins several months previous!.
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leaving_quietly
I think a comment on Ex 25 is most appropriate. I can think of at least three comments that could be made:
1. Contributions were asked for by God, but not demanded... it was to be from everyone whose heart moved him. Today, we also ask for voluntary contributions to promote the worldwide work in all its facets, but it is never demanded of anyone. We never demand funds, pass around collection plates or anything like that. It is always "from everone whose heart" moves them.
2. Contributions taken were to accomplish a specific purpose, the one-time building of the tent, tabernacle and the ark of the convenant. Likewise today, when a specific need arises, we may have funds set aside for that one-time need, such as a major repair on a kingdom hall project, the building of an assembly hall or something like that. Once the need is done, the brothers and sisters are not continually burdened with additional contributions that go beyond that specific need.
3. In the days of the Israelites, Jehovah had his tabernacle and tent and that was the central place where Jehovah dwelled in spirit. Today, however, the situation is different. As Acts 7:48 says, "The Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands." This being the case, we could not imagine Jehovah today asking for contributions to be taken to build a building for him. True, we have Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls and branches, and these are built using voluntary donations "from the heart". But we would never take up a specific contribution to expand these contributions beyond what we voluntarily give on a personal basis.
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Speculation on why now?
by Crazyguy inin the last couple of years the org has gone money crazy, selling off over a billion dollars worth of property and now a new tithing program.
just wonder what every one thinks is the reason for all this now?.
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leaving_quietly
Soon, I expect the WTS Corporations in the USA will be overloaded with debt (think: Warwick)
No way... Warwick should be paid for many times over by now. Media sources show the project costing an estimated $11.5 million while they're raking in nearly $500 million from sales of Brooklyn properties. Even if the Warwick project costs 10 times the estimate, the sales in Brooklyn covers that. Easily debt free on that project.
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Bible Authority - A Cop-Out?
by Joe Grundy inmentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.. this is a quote from paul's jwfacts site about christadelphians (not a million miles removed from jws):.
"the bible is god's word and the only message from him.
it is without error, except for copying and translation errors.".
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leaving_quietly
I recently listed to a radio program that was discussing the Dead Sea Scrolls, which apparently dates to something like 1500 years before Christ. They were saying that they were surprised that between that and the Masoretic Text, there is very little difference. As an example, they used Isaiah 53 and said that only one word had changed, and the word that changed was done because of modernizing the meaning of the word. This was from a non-JW source. So, as far as copying errors, it appears there were very little during that gap. At least that was the conclusion of the radio program.
That doesn't explain the contradictions, such as Solomon having 40000 stables in one verse (1 Kings 4:26) and 4000 in another (2 Chron 9:25). Interestingly, the RNWT "corrects" 1 Kings 4:26 and puts in 4000 but footnotes it, acknowledging that some scripts say 40000. I suspect this was a copy error even prior to the Dead Sea Scrolls that simply got copied over and over and over.
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JW.ORG ABOUT TO WIN THE LOTTERY!
by The Searcher inafter the reading out of the letter about the "new donation arrangement" this week, there is going to be a flood of money pouring into the org's coffers!.
not only from the bank accounts of the sheep, but soon after from the bulk of money in kingdom hall accounts worldwide!.
question: has anyone calculated how much cash could be grabbed from the 113,823 congregations on earth?.
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leaving_quietly
Our cong rarely sent over $100 USD to the branch for the KH Construction. Typically, it was less than $50 USD. This new arrangement almost guarantees a higher amount, I suspect. However, for sake of this exercise, let's say each publisher tithed $1 USD worldwide. That's almost $8 million per month or $96 million per year... a hefty sum indeed. I have heard that some countries are very expensive to build in due to the high cost of shipping in supplies. For example, some of the pacific island countries might be close to $500,000 for a KH because of this issue. I heard this recently from someone who used to work on KH and branch building across the globe. Regardless of how much these cost, to institute a perpetual, never-ending tithe is not something the organization should be doing. If it were for just one year, that's a different story. Or, if the funds were used to help the poor, feed the hungry, something like that, it would also be a different story. But to build KHs? In the first century, they met in private homes. I see no need to burden the rank and file unendingly just to give others a comfortable place to sit twice a week.
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Feeling disloyal
by stirred but not shaken ini've been visiting here for about a year or so, but didn't really feel compelled to participate other than reading the various posts that interested me.. there's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to god, the organization, many friends and relatives.. i've been associated since birth.
after 65 + years of service within this organization and actually enjoying that time, it troubled me to find myself wanting to express feelings that were contrary to all that time of "faithfulness".
those years were filled with progressive "privileges and responsibilities" even at a high level, and there was considerable success in our evangelizing activity.
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leaving_quietly
Welcome, stirred. What you expressed is very similar to many here. Some here have gone through extreme turmoil which started them questioning things. I don't say "doubt", however, because many here don't doubt God or his Son, but do "question" the teachings of man. There is nothing wrong with questioning man's teachings, contrary to what the Society claims. In fact, there is nothing wrong with questioning God or his representatives, as we saw clearly yesterday in the Watchtower study where Gideon did just that. Questions lead to other questions. Sometimes they lead to answers, sometimes not. But sometimes, the journey is better than the destination.
I understand the feeling of disloyalty. It's easy to feel that way, especially since the Society has ingrained in us the requirement to be loyal. Often, they use the example of David and how he would not dare to take Saul's life because Saul was an anointed one by God. However, what we fail to recognize is that is where his loyalty stopped. He was not loyal to Saul's orders at that point because Saul was seeking to kill him. In other words, loyalty to man only goes so far.
Think of this: who does the Society say they represent? Jehovah. Who do they say they belong to? Jehovah.
Now ask: What arrangement did Jehovah really set up? Ephesians 1:22 says God made Christ head over all things with regard to the congregation.
What does this imply? That the Society's position takes Christ out of the way. It's no longer: Jehovah -> Jesus -> Congregation. Instead, it's Jehovah -> Congregation. When was the last time you heard "Christ's channel"? If the Society has taken the place of Christ, then wouldn't they really be overstepping their authority?
Consider this: in Egypt, Joseph was made second to Pharaoh. This was an illustration of the relationship between God and Christ. Even the Society makes this link. (w52 p. 733 par. 13) Notice what the scriptures say about their relationship.
Regarding the famine:
Gen 41:15: Eventually, all the land of Egypt suffered from the famine, and the people began to cry to Phar′aoh for bread. Then Phar′aoh said to all the Egyptians: “Go to Joseph, and do whatever he tells you.”
Do you think the Egyptians could do an end run around Joseph and go directly to Pharaoh? No. Notice what he further says:
Gen 41:39-41: Phar′aoh then said to Joseph: “Since God has caused you to know all of this, there is no one as discreet and wise as you. You will personally be over my house, and all my people will obey you implicitly. Only in my role as king will I be greater than you.” And Phar′aoh added to Joseph: “See, I am putting you over all the land of Egypt.”
Do you see the picture here? This is EXACTLY what Jehovah has done with Christ.
When Jesus was transfigured:
Matt 17:5: While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.”
And later, when Jesus was resurrected:
Matt 28:18: Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
Just like Pharaoh was greater in his role as king, Jehovah is greater in his role as King to his Son:
1 Cor 15:27-28: For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
What's my point? The Society constantly does an end run around God's duly appointed King, places themselves in his place and ignores his authority. True, they do give him lip service, but in reality, they treat Jesus as nothing more that a sacrifice. They do not honor him as they do God, which they really should do. John 5:22,23 says: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."One should ask, then, since God appointed Christ over all things, including the congregation, to whom should our loyalty go? To the organization? Or to Christ?
Another thing to think about: Read Galatians 2 very carefully. It is Paul's account of that famed meeting in Jerusalem from which the Society gets the idea of a governing body. Why did he go in the first place? Does it sound like Paul was going up to ask a question to get settled? Was he being disloyal with his actions?
Anyway, like I said, this is a very common feeling, and one that can take a long time to get past. Please pray and do your research. Don't leave God out of the process.
Best wishes to you.
~LQ
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Babylon the Great is the BIGGEST Harlot!
by The Searcher intwo key scriptures in revelation give a description of btg, and by doing so, identify to whom the name "babylon the great" applies.
revelation 17:5,6 says, "babylon the great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.
" and i saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of jesus".
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leaving_quietly
I see your point, Laika. I agree with it from that angle.
I was thinking of "religion" more as "denomination", which is a really polite way of saying "sect". Paul was warning against forming sects and dividing Christ that way.
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Forward emails
by msconcerned ini have searched this site and cant find what im looking for.
i need the letter that was sent out saying do not be forwarding emails of experiences that we cant verify who they came from.
can i get a hand?.
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leaving_quietly
It was a km 11/99 "Use of the Internet - Be Alert to the Dangers!"
27 Internet E-Mail: Although sharing personal experiences or thoughts among family or friends who live far apart is appropriate, is it really loving to pass these on to others who may not know your family or friends? Or should these be posted on a Web page for just anyone to read? Are these personal messages to be copied and sent indiscriminately to people whom you may or may not know? Likewise, if you receive messages from others that were clearly not intended for you, is it loving to pass them on to still others?
28 What if the experience you pass on is not accurate? Would this not be sharing in perpetuating an untruth? (Prov. 12:19; 21:28; 30:8; Col. 3:9) Certainly, keeping “strict watch that how [we] walk is not as unwise but as wise persons” would move us to consider this. (Eph. 5:15) How happy we are that the Yearbook, The Watchtower, and Awake! are filled with verifiable experiences that encourage us and motivate us to keep walking in “the way”!—Isa. 30:20, 21.
29 There is also another danger. The apostle Paul said concerning some: “They also learn to be unoccupied, gadding about to the houses; yes, not only unoccupied, but also gossipers and meddlers in other people’s affairs, talking of things they ought not.” (1 Tim. 5:13) This argues against spending time and effort passing on frivolous information to our brothers.
30 Think, too, of the amount of time that it takes to keep up with a large quantity of E-mail. Interestingly, the book Data Smog stated: “As one spends more and more time online, e-mail quickly changes from being a stimulating novelty to a time-consuming burden, with dozens of messages to read and answer every day from colleagues, friends, family, . . . and unsolicited sales pitches.” Further, it states: “Many electronic glutizens have picked up the very bad habit of forwarding every entertaining nugget they receive—jokes, urban myths, electronic chain letters, and more—to everyone on their electronic address book.”
31 This has been evident in the E-mail circulated among many of the brothers—such items as jokes or humorous stories about the ministry; poetry presumably based on our beliefs; illustrations from various talks heard at assemblies, conventions, or at the Kingdom Hall; experiences from the field ministry; and so forth—things that seem innocent enough. Most routinely forward such E-mail without checking the source, making it difficult to know who really is the originator, which ought to make one wonder if the information is really true.—Prov. 22:20, 21.
32 Such often-frivolous messages are not the kind of healthful words that Paul had in mind when he wrote to Timothy, saying: “Keep holding the pattern of healthful words that you heard from me with the faith and love that are in connection with Christ Jesus.” (2 Tim. 1:13) The “pure language” of Scriptural truth has “the pattern of healthful words” based mainly on the Bible’s theme of the vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty by means of the Kingdom. (Zeph. 3:9) We should make every effort to devote all our available time and energy to support this vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty.