Posts by leaving

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

Some of us are stuck in JW land for various reasons, although mentally out.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

I noticed this during the WT study on Sunday.

1 Cor 15:23: "But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence."

The Greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how WTBTS views this word versus the rest of the world.

What I noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.

1 Cor 15:51,52: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."

Verse 23, in the NWT, infers a gradual resurrection while verse 52 infers a quick and abrupt resurrection.

Comparing this with 1 Thess 4:16, we find agreement with 1 Cor 15:52: "because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."

My conclusion is that 1 Cor 15:23 is completely inappropriately translated by WTBTS. It should read, as nearly every other translation does: "when he comes" or "at his coming" or "when he arrives" or something similar.

43

WT Study Article Nov. 23, 2014--Adam understood "day" to be 24 hours

by Cadellin in

interesting admission in today's wt: adam may have understood "day" (as in "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die") to be a literal 24-hour period.

i don't think the wt has ever said this before; the usual emphasis is that jah meant it as a figurative day, a day from his standpoint which is 1,000 years (and the article does state that, later).. however, if adam understood god's warning to be carried out in a 24 hour period, and god did nothing to alleviate that, then who did the lying?

actually, regardless of adam's understanding, the question still stands but moving toward an admission of the use of day in that context to be 24-hours only makes the question even more valid.

leaving_quietly

Did you notice the picture of Abel resurrected with a full beard?

16

Bible reading section for the week of November 24th. Duet 28-31

by stuckinarut2 in

so the "cong bible reading " section to be covered for this week is from deuteronomy 28-31.... have you ever read this section????

wow...just wow....there is some psycho stuff in it!.

"do as i (jehovah) say, or i'll mess you up with some really perverse and psychotic stuff!".

leaving_quietly

Deut 29 is key to dismantling the doctrine that only the 144,000 are part of the new covenant. WTBTS has asserted that the alien residents / foreigners were never included in the covenant with Israel. This chapter debunks that. This chapter restates the covenant and makes the addendum that all are included (see vs. 10-14 particularly).

43

WT Study Article Nov. 23, 2014--Adam understood "day" to be 24 hours

by Cadellin in

interesting admission in today's wt: adam may have understood "day" (as in "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die") to be a literal 24-hour period.

i don't think the wt has ever said this before; the usual emphasis is that jah meant it as a figurative day, a day from his standpoint which is 1,000 years (and the article does state that, later).. however, if adam understood god's warning to be carried out in a 24 hour period, and god did nothing to alleviate that, then who did the lying?

actually, regardless of adam's understanding, the question still stands but moving toward an admission of the use of day in that context to be 24-hours only makes the question even more valid.

leaving_quietly

Ugh. This article is so... elementary. Why in the world are we going to spend an hour on it?

Therefore, now that we have moved beyond the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying a foundation again, namely, repentance from dead works and faith in God, the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment. - Heb 6:1

9

HOW will YOU end?

by Terry in

jw
friends

a couple of years back, a friend of mine who is a former baptist preacher (dub horn) began.

visiting a rehabilitation hospital.

the irony of this was not lost on me.

leaving_quietly

This is a challenging topic, to be sure. Once I hit 40, it was like I was staring down both barrels of a shotgun. Half my life (or more) is over. There's a reason it's called a mid-life crisis.

I read the book " Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up " by James Hollis. A hard read... I had to really take my time with it. But, it helped me understand some of the things I was feeling at the time (and still feel).

I often fantasize about going back in time to one crucial moment and changing the decision I made. Have you ever thought about that? If you could go back, is there one defining moment you would change? I can think of two or three moments like that... all before I turned 21 years old. By the time I turned 21, my life was on a solid course to where it is now. I can identify two events, a couple of minor ones, and one very major one. If I changed the minor events, the major event would have never happened. If I changed the major event, my life would be very different than it is right now.

But I can't go back. I can only go forward. The problem is, the only thing going forward for me is time. My life is completely stuck in a massive rut. Same thing day in and day out. No variation whatsoever. It's been like this for a number of years. I can't get out without major repercussions. I'm nearly at the point where the repercussions will be worth it.

I'm not suicidal at all. I rather enjoy breathing. But, I do feel that if this is where my life is going to stay, there's nothing left to look forward to, so an end would be somewhat welcome.

21

FDS & G.B. TEACHING DESTROYED

by The Searcher in

credit to vidqun for the direction given.. the watchtower november 15th qfr http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20141115/ blows the selection process/timing/individuals clean out of the water!.

simply put, ask any witness these questions:.

who is represented by the 'two witnesses' in revelation chapter 7?

leaving_quietly

First I went back to my Rev. Book first edition . That said that the 2 Witnesses were the "John Class" thus all the remnant at that time and the 1260 days ran from Oct. 1914.

I have an original 1988 Revelation book in mint condition. It was the last one in the KH literature room. I found it a few months ago. It was about to be thrown away. I grabbed it. Here's what it says:

Additionally, at the beginning of the Lord's day, there was a marked period of three and a half years when the hard experiences of God's people matched the events prophesied here--starting from the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 and continuing to the early part of 1918.

The revised version in 2006 says this:

Additionally, at the beginning of the Lord's day, there was a marked period of three and a half years when the hard experiences of God's people matched the events prophesied here--starting in December 1914 and continuing to June 1918.

This is a HUGE shift. The outbreak of WW1 was on July 28, 1914. Counting forward 1,260 days brings us to January 8, 1918. Other than a major split among the Bible Students at the annual meeting few days earlier, nothing special happened to them on that day.

Of course, back in 1954, yet a different explanation was published. In the w54 6/1 p. 338-339 an explanation was given of the 1,260 days, but this time, that equated to the "time, times and half a time" of Danial 12:7. Here's what that article said:

6 In Daniel the twelfth chapter, verses 1, 2 and 3, Jehovah foretold centuries ago just what his people would have to experience in carrying out this commission. He tells us of Michael’s standing up. He then tells of a great time of trouble and of the ultimate deliverance of his servants from it. It would then occur that their great privilege of theocratic service would be extended.

7 In verse 7 he tells of the 1,260 days during which the power of these “holy people” would be destroyed. Following this, in verse 11, he describes a period of 1,290 days that would follow from the time of the taking away of the daily sacrifice and the setting up of the “abomination that maketh desolate.” A third period, described as a 1,335-day period, would follow, after which an era of happiness would be ushered in. The meaning and understanding of all these periods were locked up and sealed until the “time of the end.” Now we are at that very time and, true to his promise, Jehovah has unlocked his prophecies and made them plain.

8 The 1,260-day period, with its destructive effect on the power of Jehovah’s people, found its fulfillment from October, 1914, to April, 1918. The 1,290-day period ran from January, 1919, to September, 1922, and the 1,335-day period extended from September, 1922, to May, 1926. A full Scriptural treatise of these dates and their application will be found in the Watchtower issues of July 1 and 15, 1951.

9 Here our purpose is not to go into a consideration of the correctness and the understanding of these dates and to prove them. That has already been done in our aforementioned issues. Rather, we purpose now to establish the fact that Jehovah did foreknow the vicious opposition his people would encounter and this, as well as its effect upon his people, he clearly outlined in detail, in order that they might be strengthened to meet such emergencies. He likewise outlined their subsequent period of blessedness, happiness, after this period of test.

17

Update today on Candace Conti vs Watchtower case

by Watchtower-Free in

http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

leaving_quietly

Being that Rick Simmons filed this new letter, it's got to be something AGAINST WTBTS.

17

Update today on Candace Conti vs Watchtower case

by Watchtower-Free in

http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

leaving_quietly

Being that Rick Simmons filed this new letter, it's got to be something AGAINST WTBTS.

21

FDS & G.B. TEACHING DESTROYED

by The Searcher in

credit to vidqun for the direction given.. the watchtower november 15th qfr http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20141115/ blows the selection process/timing/individuals clean out of the water!.

simply put, ask any witness these questions:.

who is represented by the 'two witnesses' in revelation chapter 7?

leaving_quietly

I agree that the WTBTS explanation here makes no sense. Timing is off all around. The "two witnesses" were given authority to prophecy for 1,260 days, or 42 months. If that was from the beginning of the last days (October 2, 1914), that would come to an end on March 15, 1918. However, WTBTS doesn't count this way. They count backward from the time of imprisonment. Thus, the Daniel's Prophecy book on page 296 paragraph 18 says:

"The prophecy is quite explicit as to when the 1,260 days would end—when there is “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces.” In the middle of 1918, leading members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, including its president, J. F. Rutherford, were convicted on false charges, sentenced to long terms of confinement, and imprisoned. God’s holy ones did indeed see their work ‘dashed to pieces,’ their power broken. Counting back three and a half years from mid-1918 brings us to the end of 1914.

Is this so? According to page 143, paragraph 31 of the same book, we find this:

Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.

So, let's count backward 1,260 days from June 21, 1918. Does it result in "the end of 1914?" Not at all! It brings us to January 8, 1915. Another lie.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly