Posts by leaving

57

Couple questions....like if JW's not the right way then what is?

by world in

jw
friends

new member here so don't attack :d here is a couple questions i have been contemplating lately.. .

if jw isn't the right religion, then which one is?

or is it basically believe in god, the bible and you'll be fine?.

leaving_quietly

Welcome!

You make very good points in your post. Shows you're starting to THINK for yourself instead of letting others think for you. That's good. I will answer from my personal perspective, which is not shared by everyone. But that's why I like this forum. It's diversity gives us perspectives from every angle.

JWs like to say they are the way and the truth. However, who is the way and the truth, according to the Bible?

John 14:6

This gives us a major hint at, not WHERE to go, but WHOM to go to.

John 6:67, 68

Whom should we be learning FROM?

Matt 11:29

And who did he say would come AFTER him to teach us?

Matt 16:13

Some here are not believers. I still am. I have learned, however, that relying on men to teach me is problematic. Why? Keep in mind that the Pharisees were the teachers of the law among God's people. How many times did Christ condemn them? And what did he say about their teaching and why?

Matt 16:5-12

John gave a powerful witness regarding this.

1 John 2:26, 27

Unfortunately, this religion were were all part of (I still am for the moment) has soured many of us to religion in general, and that is understandable. Each person has to do what they feel is right. At the very least, if you are still a believer, and you believe in the power of prayer, then ask for understanding. Ask to be led into all truth. And be ready for the wild ride it will take you on.

18

Today's wt "study" obfuscations

by prologos in

paragraph 9 : " jesus blood validates the new covenant -- makes posiible the forgiveness sins for all time#.-- [and]--.

god could apply the value of jesus' shed blood to adams descendants--*.

--he could** also adopt certain --humans "as sons"--".

leaving_quietly

This article is FULL OF HOLES.

I'll just mention a couple:

Last sentence of par 5: "Consequently, God rejected that nation."

This BLATANTLY contradicts what is written at Romans 11:1: "I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! For I too am an Israelite, of the offspring of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin."

Par. 9 uses Romans 8:14-17 as it's main point. Verse 14 is key: "For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons." (Notice, it doesn't say, "all who are anointed by God's spirit". The Greek work for "led" is can also mean "guide". Do JWs believe they are "guided by" God's spirit? You bet they do.)

Par. 16 refers to Rev. 5:9, 10 and Rev 7:4 to support the 144,000 doctrine.

Rev 5:9 says: And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"

Rev 7:4 says: And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel

10

More Money For JW.ORG

by The Searcher in

my apologies if this topic has previously been spotlighted.. the following is a portion of the the recent money-grabbing letter from jw.org.

it's on page 4 - one of the three pages which only the elders were allowed to read.. "surplus funds: is it necessary to save congregation funds for future construction or major renovation projects?

what should be done with excess congregation funds that are currently being held or that may accumulate in the future?

leaving_quietly

I don't read it that way, Searcher. It sounds more like the direction is to review periodically, and each time, they should have a one-time resolution to donate the surplus funds found during the review. I'm reading it that they are NOT to have a perpetual donation of surplus funds, but only one-time for the surplus found during the review. Then, for the next review, that resolution does not apply, but they'd have to have another one.

That's how I'm reading it, at least. Regardless, it's still a money grab any way you look at it.

7

"Christmas is all they have to live for"

by stillin in

jw
friends

this is on of my wife's many-times-repeated expressions about the hilidays, especially when she has an audience that includes non-believers.

i find it offensive even though i still don't celebrate christmas.

here's another one, "and it's all based on lies!".

leaving_quietly

I hated that expression, even when I was an uber-JW. What's even worse is that the org has said over and over that JWs give gifts all throughout the year. I call BS on that. I can't remember the last time I got a gift from anyone in the organization. I'd say, maybe 15, 20 years ago?!?

6

JW Broadband???

by Gladring in

the congregation my parents belong to (they live in ireland) has been having a massive refurbishment recently.

apparently the congregation wanted to spend about 20k euro, but the society pushed for spending 100k euro "so that they won't have to do it again in 10 years time".. .

anyway, my dad was talking about changing his broadband provider, and he mentioned that he was going to wait, because some brothers came to his house with an aerial and they can receive the kingdom hall's new broadband.

leaving_quietly

Well, good for him. At least he's paying something. The KH will likely install a signal extender (just do a Google search for "extend wifi signal a mile") which may reach that far or farther.

I wouldn't impute any bad motives on the part of anyone at your father's KH. In their mind, they're probably thinking it's a kindness to extend him the lower-rate connectivity.

It is a local thing, though. This certainly isn't encouraged by the organization (at this particular time, anyway.)

26

Be honest post do all posters on this site believe the bible is 100% or has flaws?

by booker-t in

we in the psychology/sociology field have a saying "when people protest too loud usually they are overcompensating".

i did not understand that when i first started studying psychology but now i understand it completely and it is so true.

when i hear someone constantly bashing something or someone such as gay bashing or ethnic bashing or religion bashing sometimes i wonder what are they hiding.

leaving_quietly

Flawed. It's not that I don't believe the Bible, but there's way too many translation issues that obscure truth.

Just one example, at Jude 5, does it say "the Lord" saved out of Egypt, "Jehovah" saved out of Egypt or "Jesus" saved out of Egypt? Very interesting issue this one presents because some of the oldest manuscripts say Jesus. None say "Jehovah". Some say "the Lord". If it says "the Lord", which Lord is it referring to? Lord God? Or Lord Jesus? If it's really Jesus, then what are the implications? Very interesting...

12

7 questions to make JWs think

by Coded Logic in

jw
friends

) why do animals suffer and die?.

) if this is all about god's soverenty, why cause the flood?

how does it prove "man cannot direct their own step" if god immediately turns around and wipes men out for " eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage ?".

leaving_quietly

Another one: If people God killed won't be resurrected because they already had divine judgement pronounced on them, will Moses be resurrected?

6

JW Broadband???

by Gladring in

the congregation my parents belong to (they live in ireland) has been having a massive refurbishment recently.

apparently the congregation wanted to spend about 20k euro, but the society pushed for spending 100k euro "so that they won't have to do it again in 10 years time".. .

anyway, my dad was talking about changing his broadband provider, and he mentioned that he was going to wait, because some brothers came to his house with an aerial and they can receive the kingdom hall's new broadband.

leaving_quietly

Overly paranoid... for now. What you wrote seems to be more of a personal cost savings measure. Although, I'm not sure how your father will get broadband from the KH a mile away unless they install some beefy signal extenders and there's decent line of sight. Signal extenders are relatively inexpensive. There is the question of ethics here, though. Should your father be leeching off the KH's broadband that other people are paying for (through their donations)?

45

Many Member Just Want to Believe

by OnTheWayOut in

if you are/were an active jw, you are now here on jwn so, for whatever your reasons, you woke up to some degree- hopefully a great degree.

so what i am saying may not apply to you.. i know that if i had not already left, i would have stormed out on the day they studied "overlapping generation.

" i am quite confident i couldn't have stayed for such an obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how wts was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past.. but i had to wonder how that change (or others) didn't cause most jw's to walk out.

leaving_quietly

It's interesting to compare magic with WTBTS teachings. I first noticed this sleight of hand last night. I've been wondering ever I caught it how I never noticed it before:

From the Bible Teach book, p. 27 (December 2014 printing... yep, a new one is out with a new cover and all... time to do a comparison!!!):

GOD’S purpose for the earth is really wonderful. Jehovah
wants the earth to be filled with happy, healthy
people. The Bible says that “Jehovah God planted a garden
in Eden” and that he “made to grow . . . every tree
that was pleasing to look at and good for food.” After
God created the first man and woman, Adam and Eve,
He put them in that lovely home and told them: “Be
fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it.”
(Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 9, 15) So it was God’s purpose that
humans have children, extend the boundaries of that
garden home earth wide, and take care of the animals.

Let's see what the references say.

Gen 1:28:

Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

Nothing there about extending the boundaries of the garden. Oh, wait, man wasn't even IN the garden, yet. Hang on...

Gen 2:8, 9:

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E′den, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Ah, now we see man placed in the garden. But still, nothing about extending its boundaries.

Gen 2:15:

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Once again, there is no command to extend the boundaries of the garden. To cultivate it, yes and to take care of it, yes. But to extend it? It does not say that. What of the word "cultivate"? The Hebrew word is lə-‘ā-ḇə-ḏāh (Strong's 5647) which means "to work, serve". Thus, some translations say: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. " Cultivate does NOT mean extend.

This hit me like a ton of bricks last night. Take away God's supposed purpose, that of a Paradise Earth(TM) and what do you have left? There goes the carrot at the end of the stick.

But do you see the sleight of hand? The verses say one thing, and WTBTS says something that the Bible DOES NOT SAY.

11

Vomit alert - how many Dubs actually like the noolite .tv?

by hamsterbait in

one witless i know actually said "i really like brother lett - his face is soo expressive, the eyebrows go up and he uses his lips to enunciate every word clearly.

and he speaks slowly so it is easy to follow what he is saying.".

another said "iwas so excited after watching the new tv channel.

leaving_quietly

I don't care much about appearances. It's what comes out of those lips that matter. When someone can say there's more evidence of God's Kingdom ruling than electricity or wind, then that's a real problem.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly