leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  2

  Ingredients

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wtbts loves to compare themselves to chefs in a kitchen, preparing "spiritual food".

  and we are to eat that food, without question.

  i was thinking about this last night.

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  leaving_quietly

  However, other people would take a more intelligent approach.

  I meant "intellectual approach". This makes it sound like people who don't do this are not intelligent. That's not what I was trying to say. Sorry if this caused any offense.
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  2

  Ingredients

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wtbts loves to compare themselves to chefs in a kitchen, preparing "spiritual food".

  and we are to eat that food, without question.

  i was thinking about this last night.

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  leaving_quietly

  WTBTS loves to compare themselves to chefs in a kitchen, preparing "spiritual food". And we are to eat that food, without question. I was thinking about this last night. When purchasing physical food, we go to the store, look at the box/bag/can and determine whether the food looks like something we'd eat. We base that mostly on the visual appeal of the packaging. And most of us stop there. However, some of us look at the list of ingredients. And there we see things we don't recognize, like "Thiamin Chloride Hydrochloride", "Sodium Selenate", "Cyanocobalamin", and others like that. Most of us just shrug our shoulders and buy the product, take it home and eat it. No questions asked, thinking perhaps, "it wouldn't be in there if it was bad for us." This is just like WTBTS. Some of the "ingredients" are like this... we see it. We try to "pronounce" it/understand it, but when we can't, we just shrug our shoulders and "eat it" anyway, figuring that those who prepare it wouldn't put anything bad in there.

  What happens, though, when a news story comes out that says that "Sodium Selenate" is bad for you, that it can cause this health condition or that health condition. (Disclaimer: I'm using Sodium Selenate as an example only... I have no idea what it is or if it is bad.) Would you take the news story at it's face value? Some people would. So, they go through their house, find all the products with "Sodium Selenate" and toss them in the trash. However, other people would take a more intelligent approach. They'd research what "Sodium Selenate" is. They'd find out its properties, and they'd look into the news stories claims about why it's supposedly bad.

  As individuals purchasing physical food, we have the right and responsibility to make sure what we are eating is good for us. We can choose to ignore the ingredients. We can choose to remain uneducated about them to see if they are good for us or harmful in any way. If we do that with physical food, isn't it more important that we do that with "spiritual food"? Should we not have the right and responsibility to investigate what it is we are "eating"? And if we find some ingredient that's not good for us, should we not have the right to not eat it any more?
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  25

  Went to SAD

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  b.o.r.i.n.g.. same ol' stuff.

  highlights:.

  - reading the bible "must be more than an intellectual experience".

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  leaving_quietly

  Thought you'd all "enjoy" this, especially the "LAZY" part. The second I said this, I said to myself: "Lazy? Are you kidding me? JWs in general are too lazy to learn what the Bible really says. They'd rather be spoon fed than to take the time to do research, let alone READ the Bible." Of course, they used James 2:26 for this, proving once again that they equate works with meetings and service (yes, the speaker said "Jehovah's works of meetings and the ministry".)

  As far as drawing away from God = losing affection for the brothers and sisters . . . Who says "apostates" lose affection? Personally, I had a great time catching up with old friends. No affection loss for me.
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  25

  Went to SAD

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  b.o.r.i.n.g.. same ol' stuff.

  highlights:.

  - reading the bible "must be more than an intellectual experience".

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  leaving_quietly

  B.O.R.I.N.G.

  Same ol' stuff. Highlights:

  - Reading the Bible "must be more than an intellectual experience"

  - Allow scriptures to affect us in a deeply personal way

  - Do research in WT sanctioned places: WT Library CD, Online Library, Appendices in back ot RNWT

  - Apply what we learn from God's Word. Ironic demo followed: Couple with marriage problems had shepherding visit. Man thanked elder later and said he and his wife studied and applied the counsel found IN THE WATCHTOWER.

  - Quote: "Studying God's word draws us closer to him" Really?

  Luke 10:22: All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.

  ---

  - Reason from the scriptures (Acts 17:2). "Better to use one text than to use 2 or 3 and overwhelm the householder."

  - DEMO: How to properly read Rev. 21:3, 4 to stir hearts. (Emphasis on right words, etc.)

  - DEMO: Wrong way to introduce the Bible Teach book: start with a scripture first. Right way: Ask a question, THEN read a scripture

  - DEMO: Informal witnessing in a doctor's office (this setting is used a lot) Used Rev 21:3, 4. (So why is it that no more pain, mourning, tears and death are literal, but New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven is not?)

  Prov 3:27: "Do not hold back good" applies to not holding back preaching/teaching

  ---

  "Satan presents himself as the final voice of authority: 'do things my way'"

  Deceptions:

  1 John 5:19, 20: (vs 19) Satan has misled the whole world, but (vs 20) we have insight

  Heb 3:12, 13: "Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God."

  Speaker said losing affection for the brothers and sisters in the congregation is drawing away from God.

  - don't miss meetings

  - don't associate with worldly people

  - don't watch bad movies

  False religious teachings (aka Apostates):

  - How do you know if someone has apostate leanings? He/she says something like "Have you ever thought that maybe the end isn't going to be here any time soon?" Sows seeds of doubt. Rom 16:17 - "avoid them"

  - Question asked: "Why would individuals start down that path?" Answer: James 2:26: "Faith without works is dead". Speaker said: 'They are LAZY! They don't want to do Jehovah's work, going to meetings or in the ministry.' They experience a "shipwreck of their faith"
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  57

  ATMs in assembly halls

  by Xanthippe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i only heard about these atms last year on this forum.

  the poster seemed to be saying they are for donating only, is that correct?

  absolutely gobsmacked over this, don't the brothers see any correlation between this and the likes of jimmy swaggart?

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  leaving_quietly

  @ emeth: the stories that blondie came up with are not relevant. Some of them are 30 - 40 years old.

  The Bible is much older than that. Just sayin'
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  26

  Seeds of Doubt.

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seeds of doubt.

  what was it about the jw religion that first gave you serious doubts as to its truthiness?.

  for me it occurred in late 1984 when we were studying the brochure the divine name that will endure forever which had been released at the summer convention that year.

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  leaving_quietly

  There were two talks around the same time period, one title "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". The other, "Millions Now Living May Never Die".

  Proclaimers p. 719:

  1918 The discourse “The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living May Never Die” is first delivered, on February 24, in Los Angeles, California. On March 31, in Boston, Massachusetts, the talk is entitled “The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living Will Never Die”

  Of course, the world did not end in 1918, either.
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  26

  Seeds of Doubt.

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seeds of doubt.

  what was it about the jw religion that first gave you serious doubts as to its truthiness?.

  for me it occurred in late 1984 when we were studying the brochure the divine name that will endure forever which had been released at the summer convention that year.

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  leaving_quietly

  I was a toddler when my parents became JWs. I always accepted everything as truth. Changes never bothered me. I bought into the whole "new light" thing. But, I eventually had my own crisis to deal with, a marriage going bad. For me it was the lack of scriptural backing for the three acceptable reasons for a spouse to get a separation: willful non-support, extreme physical abuse and absolute spiritual endangerment. When I researched these myself (because I had (still have) such a sucky marriage) and found no Biblical backing for these, I wondered: what else has no backing? I read the Bible, some parts over and over, and found things in there that flat out contradicted what WTBTS taught. I compared translations. I used the Interlinear and Emphatic Diaglott a lot. After this, I made a conscious decision to "make the truth my own".

  I asked myself: why DO we say 1914 is when Jesus was enthroned? How would I explain that in field service? Where do we get paradise earth from? Again, how do I explain this from the scriptures?

  I quickly found out that not only could I not explain these things scripturally, but if I tried to do so, it would take serious leaps in bible verses taken out of context to even attempt it. I also learned about the wiggle phrases used in the literature: "in a sense", "evidently", "perhaps". And I learned how cherry-picking verses works. I learned a new term, eisegesis, which is a study of the Bible to make it fit a preconceived notions, which is exactly what WTBTS does.

  After learning that I could not defend what I long believed in, my faith was extremely shaken. But, I was an uber-JW up to that point and have an uber-JW family. So, leaving, even fading, was not a realistic thing for me. I didn't know what to do. I could not talk to my wife about this. She said I was being negative about the Society and it was affecting her faith. I recall remarking: "that says something about how strong your faith is, doesn't it?" That didn't go over well. So, I continued on my "journey", as she calls it. More studying, more comparing translations.

  During all this, I was made aware of how far JWs had come from actually listening to Christ. So, I focused a lot of time and energy on what he said/taught/did. I could see pretty clearly that if I wanted to continue believing in God (which I did), I had to focus on Christ. So much of what Christ said is the plain opposite of what WTBTS teaches. I found that much of what WTBTS does and teaches are things he denounced the scribes and Pharisees for doing. I realized that my faith all my life was simply misplaced in an organization that sets themselves up as "the truth", as "the way to salvation", as "God's mouthpiece". Today, I am mentally out. I am physically in... for now. For how long? I don't know. Time will tell.
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  19

  Will the jw's get all excited about Russia in the Ukraine?

  by hoser in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  usually when world events like this take place the dubs start into how the end must be so close they can almost taste it.

  maybe there will be some speculation about the king of the north and south again.

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  leaving_quietly

  My wife said: "This could start the great tribulation!"

  Me:

  Not wanting to start an argument, I decided not to tell her that JWs teach that the GT starts with the overthrow of religion. She should know that.
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  24

  The question of the crucifix.

  by quellycatface in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why do the jw's insist that jesus was crucified on a stake??

  the practice by the romans back in that time was to use a cross.

  i've even heard of some witnesses say it was due to "lack of wood.

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  leaving_quietly

  Frankly, it's all about "debates about words" (1 Tim 1:3,4)

  Whether Christ was executed on a cross or on a stake has absolutely no bearing on anything. I gave up on caring about that. That he was resurrected and his blood covers sins are the more important things to focus on. It's like saying someone was killed by a Colt 45 or a 22 shotgun. Who cares (besides the investigators?) The person is still dead. Why the WTBTS obsesses about stuff like this is beyond my capability to comprehend.
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  9

  Governing Body meetings

  by JWOP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  johannes greber's book "communication with the spirit word of god -- it's laws and purpose" states that, in order to seek god's truth one must cummunicate with the spirit world on a regular basis.

  according to the governing body, they get their teachings from those who have died and been resurrected to heaven (the watchtower, jan. 1, 2007, p.28, para.11).

  also, it was published that the gb meets on a regular basis, every wednesday (the watchtower, may 15, 2008, p.29).

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  leaving_quietly

  They meet on Wednesdays. What time of day, I do not know. But Wednesdays for sure. That's what was told to use at our elders school a couple of years back and repeated by our C.O., then service overseer.