ATMs in assembly halls

Xanthippe

I only heard about these ATMs last year on this forum. The poster seemed to be saying they are for donating only, is that correct? Absolutely gobsmacked over this, don't the brothers see any correlation between this and the likes of Jimmy Swaggart? Where are their brains! Are there any of these ATMs in assembly halls the UK?

williamhconley

This is too embarrassing!. They criticized other churches for accepting Credit Cards and now they announce it in the assemblies that this option is available. Now ATM's for donations...this is just getting ridiculous.

I had 1 bible study years ago stumble at the meeting when the P.O. gave the local needs begging for money to pay the KH bills and to support the pioneers financially. That same week I have told him that we JW's will never ask for money and we are different from other religions. I was upset but I was naive thinking that we were in fact different. This is just getting to embarrassing to explain away to Bible Students or any interested person.

W.H.Conley

awakenyr2004

I could see Jesus knocking over the ATM machines!

blondie

*** g03 8/8 p. 29 Watching the World ***

Plastic Card Donations

“A growing number of Canadian churches” are adopting “modern banking practices, introducing bank cards and credit cards as convenient ways for parishioners to make collection-plate donations,” says the Vancouver Sun newspaper. Debit machines have been placed in church halls along with “donation envelopes with options for automatic account withdrawal and credit card payment.” Individuals simply swipe their card, key in the amount they wish to donate, and then put a copy of the receipt in the collection plate. As one pastor stated: “A cashless society is where society is going. Why not the church?” A church treasurer joked: “You get air-miles on your card, plus you go to heaven for donations. Just think of it as double reward points.”

*** w75 11/1 p. 651 Insight on the News ***

Pray Now, Pay Later”

● The phrase “pray now, pay later” appeared in a headline of the Philadelphia “Inquirer” in reporting on a church experiment due to go into effect shortly. A group of ten U.S. religions, including some major Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist and Baptist denominations, have decided to try church collections by credit card. The experiment, sponsored by the National Council of Churches, will encourage participating church members to authorize credit-card transfers of a specified contribution to their church each month. The idea, a Council spokesman says, is that “this will provide the local church with regular income whether or not the local congregation is in attendance,” especially in “off-seasons,” like summer vacation time. The report on the experiment says that those joining the program will be “giving unto business what belongs to business—a profit.” How so? “Participating banks will charge 65 cents a transaction, and the credit card companies will rake off 3 percent of every donation.” Obviously someone benefits, but how much spiritual benefit is the modern churchgoer getting?

*** w71 8/15 pp. 505-507 How Religious Expenses Are Met ***

Certain clergymen in the New York area are very businesslike about the matter. They send out monthly statements to their parishioners reminding them of the amount they owe their church. And one Congregational preacher in Vermont was reported in the press as having installed a credit-card machine inside the front door for those who would prefer to contribute by this means. Ever so many churches either require or encourage their members to tithe, that is, to give to their church a tenth of their income.

There are also the professional fund raisers for special purposes, such as the renovating or the building of church structures. As the book The Church as Employer, Money Raiser and Investor says, “The work of helping churches raise money has become a specialized job.” Among the foremost of the fund-raising agencies is Ketchum, Inc. It and others like it belong to the American Association of Fund-Raising Counsel.

A very popular method used to collect money for a church is the use of bingo and like games of chance. Among the latest of these are what are called “Las Vegas Nights.” Under the heading: “Bingo’s Sun Is Setting in Glow of Vegas Nites,” the New York Daily News, of March 2, 1971, told how these Las Vegas Nights are replacing bingo as a source of church revenue. The report said: “Last Saturday night more than 500 persons showed up at the Holliswood Jewish Center in Holliswood, Queens, to try their luck at cards, dice, luck bucks and a wheel spinning creakily on the wall. Our Lady of Lourdes in Queens Village, Queens, is presenting a Las Vegas Night replete with poker, black jack, big six, over and under and you name it. Admission is $1 and the refreshments are gratis.” One Catholic church reported an income of $26,000 from just one Las Vegas Night staged recently.

From your own experience, have you not found various ones of these methods to be used by Protestant, Catholic and Jewish religions to meet their expenses? Note, too, that they all have a basic similarity. Rather than encourage spontaneous giving, they employ pressure, subtle or otherwise, and even appeal to selfishness, as through gambling.

What about the Christian witnesses of Jehovah? Which of these methods do they use? Actually, they use none of them, not even the very common passing of a collection plate. How, then, do they gain the needed funds to pay for the expenses incurred in carrying on their religious activities on a local, national and international scale?

The emphasis in all giving among the Witnesses is that it must be voluntary and spontaneous, from the heart. In fact, ever since the earliest days of the modern witnesses of Jehovah it has been their policy that never should there be any passing of collection plates or similar solicitations for money. It was their conviction that this is Jehovah’s work and that he would open the hearts of his people to make the necessary contributions so that necessary funds would always be available for the expansion of the preaching of the Gospel.

At all of their meeting places there is a contribution box. Those who want to contribute to the support of the worship by the Witnesses may go to that box and give to the extent that they are able. There are no envelopes, no identification. So that those contributing might know the total amount contributed and what was done with the contributions received, once each month a statement is read to the congregation, giving those details. Additionally, many feel moved to send donations to the national and international headquarters for use in furthering the missionary work in other parts of the world. This, too, is voluntary.

Which of these methods do you think most closely resembles those used by Jesus and his apostles, who instituted Christianity? Have you ever read in the Bible of Jesus or any of his disciples asking for the tithe, or passing a collection basket or plate or operating games of chance? No, when Jesus sent forth his twelve apostles he specifically commanded them: “You received free, give free.” (Matt. 10:8) But did not Jesus and his band of apostles have expenses that needed to be met? Indeed they did, and so we read that they had a “money box” for their funds. (John 12:6) Where did this money come from? Doubtless from voluntary contributions. Indicating the source of some of this, Luke’s account says that traveling from city to city with Jesus and his apostles were a number of women “who were ministering to them from their belongings.” (Luke 8:3) The apostle Paul later set a fine example as a true minister of Christ Jesus in that he worked with his own hands “so as not to put an expensive burden upon any one of you.” Likewise among Jehovah’s witnesses today there is no paid clergy class burdening the congregations.—1 Thess. 2:9; Acts 20:34.

Newcomers at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s witnesses are struck with this difference between the way their churches finance their worship and the way Jehovah’s witnesses do. As one woman once put it: “In my church I felt like a dollar sign; we have been very large contributors. But here at the Kingdom Hall I was not made to feel that way at all.” The principle governing such matters among Jehovah’s witnesses is expressed by the apostle Paul at 2 Corinthians 8:12: “For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.”

Does the place of worship that you attend adhere to these Bible standards regarding religious expenses? If it does not, do you believe that God is pleased with your associating with an organization that disregards the standards of his Word?

*** g73 12/8 p. 29 Watching the World ***

Church Money

♦ Some religious organizations are going to new ends to acquire money. The Coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Catholic Church in Buffalo, New York, now accepts credit cards, not just cash donations. One finance committee member says: “A church can’t survive on 50-cent [cash] donations.” Credit-card donations are up to $30. Admission is now being charged visitors to London’s thirteenth-century Salisbury Cathedral. A London Observer article calls this “a last-ditch attempt to find a way of meeting the desperate need for funds.”

TheOldHippie

Making this a problem or something to be shocked about - I just don't get it. Maybe you still use cash to a great extent in the US? I don't know. But I do know that here in Europe cash is used to only a very very small extent. If a child comes around to my house selling cookies, or selling the Sunday newspaper, there is a wild chase around the house to try to find some cash, and ususlly we don't succeed. At the assemblies, only very few carry cash. So why not use machines? I seriously don't get the exitement.

tim hooper

Maybe so Old Hippie, but when I do work for people they invariably ask: "Any discount for cash?"

emeth

Here in the Netherlands we are discouraged in shops to pay with cash and electronic payment with bankcards is encouraged. So nowadays people dont use/have much cash on hand , simply because they dont need it and its more secure if you dont have any (they cant steal what you dont have)

So its only logical that at assemblies and conventions donating with bankcards is an option. Its secure, fast and simple and everybody has a bankcard with them.

furthermore there is no difference between a box for donations or an atm machine,.. its just the modern equivalent.

Splash

The difference between cash and card is that you have cash in your pocket right there and then.
With a card you can be coerced to pay when you cannot afford it.

There's also this angle:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/251491/1/Snippet-from-Instructions-for-Credit-Card-Donations-at-Circuit-Events

Splash.

sir82

Calling them "ATMs" is a bit misleading...

The money only flows in one direction!

Da.Furious

in reply to Xanthippe.

Yes the credit and debit card (not Amex) donations are accepted in conventions and assemblies in the UK - you should see the queue (line) for these. But for some reason they were not available at the last special day assembly.

To be honest with you, i dont mind them. I dont carry cash and when i decide i want to part a bit of my money for the rental and expenses i prefer to use cards since i have a track of everything.

ATMs in assembly halls

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