nativenyr23: I've wondered the exact same thing! Man, this is a great place! I'm not so alone anymore! Unfortunately, I have no clue as to the answer. Just questions tumbling round and round ...
Two posts in a row, I'm really getting into this!
Posts by acsot
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13Judas Iscariot
by nativenyr23 inwas watching a deal on tv last night (discovery channel, history channel, can't remember)....and it reminded me of something i've always thought about.. was judas really a bad guy?
should he be condemned for doing something that had to be done?
i mean, after all, had he not "betrayed his master".....then jesus wouldn't have died, right?
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37
Believers and their "Free Will" Dogma
by JT inone of the most interesting dogmas found among believers is the concept called free will- on the surface it starts out sounding reasonable, until you start the ask questions and listen to the explanations that are given , after awhile you realize it has no legs to stand on.
we are told by believers that god allows each person to make thier own choice and we are not robots and therefore we are able to exercise free will, the only problem is when you ask the question, what about when someone exercises thier free will and it harms someone else, why would a loving god allow someone the free will to hurt someone innocent, at that point free will sounds more like an excuse to give god a bye in terms of having to do anything- i read this posters comment and i couldn't for the life of me see any logic or reasonablness behind the concept of free will when folks get hurt like this person has-.
one of my earliest memories is of my grandfather raping me.
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acsot
Okay, I just read these posts today, and I have to add my two cents worth :
Sangdigger said :
I would call that love even if he chose to save just one person in 3 billion. Afterall, what does he owe anyone?
What if God chose not to save alot of people in China? Is there unrighteousness with God?
GOD DOES NOT OWE ANYBODY ANYTHING
so God will only save people based on their geographic location? What the ..? Is that your definition of a loving God ? He doesnt owe us anything? Hes the One who started all of this in the first place! Hes the one who supposedly sent his Son to a small geographic area on earth, knowing full well that the vast majority of mankind, throughout history, would never get to know about him, other than perhaps just knowing that someone called Jesus lived in Palestine 2,000 years ago.
Are you saying that the billions of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and other non-Christian denominations wont get much of a chance of being saved since they dont know about Jesus, and that this is righteous on Gods part simply because those people were born in areas such as China, India or Afghanistan?
All men are born dead degenerate sinners in the sight of God. The good we measure is only good in our eyes not Gods.
As you said, we are born this way, not through free will or exercising any options. Therefore, no its not loving and just to be put to death for something we couldnt help. Thats like saying that if Im standing on a subway platform and some creep comes up behind me and pushes me so hard that I cant stop myself from bumping into the person ahead of me, thereby pushing that person down onto the tracks in front of an oncoming train, that its my fault rather than the person who pushed me?As NameWithheld2 said, if thats your concept of God, I want nothing to do with him/her/it.
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39
Two Elders Came to Visit this Afternoon
by Scully in..... and i missed it!!!
arggggggggggghhhhh.
anyway, hubby was out front fixing the christmas lights when two jws approached him in the driveway.
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acsot
go skating on the Canal anyhow
Skating on the Canal? Aha, methinks me knows where y'all live. At least, I think so. Um, unless there are more canals to skate on in this frigid country of ours besides the Rideau. I'm two hours away from that canal (but can't/won't at this time tell you in which direction).
If you can, and I'll certainly understand if you can't, which congregation are/were you in? Or, would it be the north, south, east, west end of the city? Maybe that would be too specific also. Well, it's nice to know some of these posters are relatively close to home.
Isn't it pathetic that while many religions try not to get rid of their members, JWs go all out to dispose of whoever (whomever ?) they can - sure doesn't help them in their sacred annual figures.
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13
Prophetic Poverty and Delicious Torture!
by LDH inwell, kids, it's that time of year again!!!
the time of the year when the rest of the western world slows down just a little, gives thanks for what they have and stops bitching about what they don't have, and thinks of lending a helping hand to their neighbors a little bit more....you get the idea!
i wonder what those knuckleheads the jws will be doing?
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acsot
Geez, I guess I wasn't such a good dub after all!
By donating to charity, you were saying that you did not trust Jehovah enough to sort things out. I was told that there was no point in JWs taking part in any sort of relief aid (except if it was for other JWs) because anything we gave would be short-lived.
I heard that repeated over and over again also, but I always figured "why not give to charity, it'll at least help out a bit now, while we're waiting for God's kingdom." I've been giving to various charities for years, all during the time when I firmly believed Armageddon was just around some corner or other. Damn that rebellious streak of mine! -
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Is God just teasing us?
by joannadandy inok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?
i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.
you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.
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acsot
Getting some distance on the WT point of view (i.e. not reading anything produced by the WT in the last four months), I have nonetheless been doing some Bible reading on and off in non-NWT versions. My other reading has been religious essays, commentaries, Greek mythology (and of course Agatha Christie ). One day I decided to re-read the first chapters of Genesis. My instinctive, gut reaction was, "how can anyone believe this stuff actually happened? It's a parable!"
So, I don't know if God is teasing us or not, but my instincts (which are never wrong ) tell me that the Genesis account will only enlighten us as a metaphor for the consequences of our actions.
Then again, maybe I'm totally out to lunch on this!
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27
Just when I thought it was safe...
by safe4kids into go upstairs:.
ok, the weirdest thing in the world, at least in my world, just .
happened!!!
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acsot
That's hysterical! At least you have a great story to tell now - once you stop shaking! Animals are amazing, and totally unpredictable.
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9
have you been tricked about honesty?
by wheelwithinwheel ini was brought up to believe i was part of the only honest group of people on the planet.
the worldly people were gougers, thieves and downright dishonest.
when wed go to the mall and some charity would ask for a donation, my parents would politely refuse, then tell us kids the charity was crooked and skimmed off most of the money for itself.
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acsot
I've known about as many dishonest as honest JWs, and ditto for non-JWs. The only difference, which I find undermines JW honesty, is that it is done at times with an ulterior motive: tell the person whose wallet you've just returned that you're a JW, give them a tract and hope for a Bible study. It's not honesty for the sake of honesty, it's honesty for the chance you might get some service time in.
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8
Question for Yeru
by acsot inhi yeru, this is a catholicism question (as in i'm curious - i'm not throwing daggers one unique thing about ministry within the catholic church; were i to decide to become a deacon, my wife's conduct would not be a factor, however, if my wife said "no, he can't do it!
" the church would not allow me to be a deacon.
i wonder how many jw wives would say no to their hubbies seeking priveleges if they were allowed?.
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acsot
Yeru: Maybe you should post that on another board so that others can learn how not to have JWs call on them! Would have loved to have seen it!
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8
Question for Yeru
by acsot inhi yeru, this is a catholicism question (as in i'm curious - i'm not throwing daggers one unique thing about ministry within the catholic church; were i to decide to become a deacon, my wife's conduct would not be a factor, however, if my wife said "no, he can't do it!
" the church would not allow me to be a deacon.
i wonder how many jw wives would say no to their hubbies seeking priveleges if they were allowed?.
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acsot
Yeru: If you had been challenging their thinking at all during those four visits you received, you may have scared them off!
Scenario:
Dub #1: "Uh oh - there's the house of that guy who kept going on about the Trinity/heaven/cults/ whatever. You know, the one we couldn't make any headway with."
Dub #2: "Yeah, I remember, he was quite adamant in his beliefs. Um, what time is it?"
Dub #1: "Let's see, oh it's 11:45. Well, what do you think?"
Dub #2: "11:45? I really have to get going at 12 sharp, have to pick up the kids/make lunch/get my hair done - (in short, anywhere but here) - if we get in at his place maybe we won't be out in time and I really can't be late to pick up the kids/make lunch/get my hair done."
Dub #1: "I know, and I hate wasting my time with people who won't reason (yes, dubs actually say that about others - go figure). Anyway, it's getting kind of cold/hot/windy and my feet are getting cold/hot/cramped. You know, we should be searching out the sheep, not wasting our time with people who already have their minds made up (emphasis on the word "minds", as in others actually have them). Oh look, now it's 11:49. Don't want you to be late for your appointment. We'd better go."
Dub #2: "You're absolutely right. That's thoughtful of you. Oh well, we'll just have to return another day" (as they write down on their territory card that your house has already been called on).
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8
Question for Yeru
by acsot inhi yeru, this is a catholicism question (as in i'm curious - i'm not throwing daggers one unique thing about ministry within the catholic church; were i to decide to become a deacon, my wife's conduct would not be a factor, however, if my wife said "no, he can't do it!
" the church would not allow me to be a deacon.
i wonder how many jw wives would say no to their hubbies seeking priveleges if they were allowed?.
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acsot
Geez, good thing we didn't knock on your door way back then (LOL)! Although I think you would have been a tad too young to be answering the door to strangers back then in the late 70s :) - maybe there wouldn't have been so many die-hard JWs snickering at the Catholics in those days. Oh yeah right, this is an "apostate" website - maybe you should have been around back then! I'm still one foot "in", but at least my head is out, and that in itself is a huge relief. I'm taking care of my elderly mother now and she's been a dub since the 60s so I go to the meetings (and miss as many as I can) so she can get there.
Thanks for the info. BTW, I passed by a St Athanasius Armenian Catholic Church just a little while ago! It's near the library I go to.
Gotta get back to work! Thanks again.