Posts by acsot

Thanks Dansk. Books duly noted. There are a couple of great second-hand books stores here in town which I will try and get to this week. Maybe a public library?

p.s. Are we hijacking the thread?

So, you're saying that the same "proof" is superior IF people are willing to believe?
Makes no sense to me. Proof is proof, regardless of what people are willing to believe.
Honest believers don't attempt to prove the existence of God, because it doesn't exist. At least yet. Their faith that God exists, together with their personal experiences is enough to supplicate them. That's ok with me. Dishonest believers retort with things like "prove God DOESN'T exist," hoping that their opponents are too uninformed to know that it is the one making the claim that bears the burden of producing evidence. If I made the claim "angels whisper advice inside my mind. Prove me wrong," you couldn't.

Farkel: Thanks for coming out with the above. I knew there was something about czar's statement that I just couldn't accept, and you figured it out for me! And said it better than I could!

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

I've started reading about Buddhism because of the meditative aspect, as you noted yourself. I also like reading about Taoism. It seems as though peace, serenity, compassion and love can be found without nary a mention of "God". My type of religion, if I was to go that path.

One of the things that stands out in my mind as a dub was a Buddhist monks' home we knocked at one Saturday morning. We interrupted their meal, about four of them were sitting cross-legged on the floor eating rice. They couldn't speak much English, but we had such an impression of peace, kindness towards others and acceptance from these humble men that we talked about them for the rest of the morning rather than the "good news of the kingdom" nonsense we thought we were supposed to be foisting onto people. We all sort of simultaneously decided to do other stuff rather than continue in service after meeting them. It just seemed pointless. We couldn't offer the kind of inner joy these fellows had. We didn't speak this out loud of course, but it's interesting when I look back on it how we all just drifted away from service that morning and kept talking about those Buddhists.

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

acsot

Wow, I think this is the first time I've read through an eight page thread. What happened to Czar? Wasn't he the one who started this all?

As a committed fence-sitter on the statement in the Topic heading, I'm kind of dismayed by the lack of evidence for God by the Christian side. I was expecting more picking apart of evolution, with concrete examples, in the posters' own words, and not merely references to web sites where the "evidence" is all stacked up neatly but falls apart when held up to rigorous scientific testing. At least, that's been my experience in reading those types of web sites. I mean, if you really have found irrefutable evidence which destroys any part of evolution as a scientific explanation, then why can't you enunciate it clearly and simply for the benefit of people like me? How can we "make a choice" when it's not presented factually?

For example (and this is just an example, as in: I'm making this up - an example - so don't jump on me, believers or non-believers): "the neck of the giraffe proves evolution wrong because ....... (insert the reason)." At that point refer me to the web site/encyclopedia/scientific journal where I can look into it further.

Failing the above, and based solely on the reasoning and emotions on these many pages, the evidence points to the arguments by rem, Abaddon, Patio34 as being the most reasonable and logical.

Answers to prayers don't cut it. Native peoples who have asked The Great Bear spirit have received "answers" to said prayers, and I seriously don't believe that any type of bear is into answering humans' prayers. If anything, based on their past history with humans, I tend to think that said bears would send flood and famine, not answers.

Having said that, if all Christians were like bebu and Little Toe, I doubt that anyone would be able to fault Christians or Christianity for much of anything, and maybe that would help the "cause" of proving god's existence even more than all these pages of arguments.

Now if god could do my income tax for me, I'd be a definite believer!

Oh dear, I suppose that qualifies as blasphemy for the believers. That's another problem I have with many Christians, mostly of the fundamentalist sort: the Christian God doesn't have a very well-developed sense of humour.

19

IS IT JUST ME?

by Dansk in

jw
friends

since being out of the borg a little over a year now i suddenly realised how much more compassionate and caring i've become.

claire, my wife, said to me that i was never happy as a jw and she's absolutely right - and yet i persevered assuming jehovah would make things better.

he never did, of course.the point is, i've begun to realise just how much watchtower had its cultish hold over me - even right down to controlling my natural feelings!

acsot

No, Dansk, it's not just you. I was at the point where I felt totally cut off from my emotions, practially indifferent to just about everything, all in an attempt to keep myself "separate from the world." What a load of crap.

Now I feel so much "lighter" emotionally, I find that I am finally becoming "me" and I can help whoever I want whenever I want, if I want, because I have decided that's how I want to be as a human being. I feel much more connected to everyone and everything.

Ain't it great!

149

Yes or No----Do You Believe That JWs Are A Cult?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe they are "cultlike" but i don't think they are a "cult"........and you?

acsot

Swan brought up a good point about the difference in leaving her former religion and when she left the dubs. And as Farkel said:

"By golly, if the Society told me this green book was black, then I'd believe it was black!"

I'm sure most of us have heard the variation: "If the Society tells us to jump, our only response should be: How High?" The omnipresent (in the dub mind) "Society" qualifies as the leader, but the R&F being told repetitively that a group of men does not constitute a "leader" they can then say confidently: "oh no, we have no leader except Jesus", not realizing that they've just been told what to say, how to say and when to say it, and they obligingly go along with it time and time again.

So yes, of course the JWs are a cult.

10

Things you have to believe in to be a Unitarian today:

by Phantom Stranger in

acsot

Besides, it's never a bad thing to mess with the minds of the religiously unimaginative

Great line! Very funny!

47

LETTER TO UN'S DEPUTY SEC-GENERAL FINALIZED

by hawkaw in

jw
friends

please feel free to scroll down to scully's post to see a copy of the letter for you to copy and paste and use click here or please re-look at the first post of this thread for those interested:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/17/68071/1.ashx.

please note this above noted link will be up and running shortly by at least 9:15 est march 12, 2004. there was a problem with the msword file last night and to protect people, things had to be adjust and of course i was not around.

acsot

Hey Hawk! The letter's printed and posted!

20

Facing my family.....

by Evesapple in

although i have not really shared my story here, i have one thing i'd like to share now that makes me very nervous.

i'm going to visit some friends of mine in arizona for a week.

they are friends i had made on my own way after jw's, great, supportive, loving friends....i'm proud of them in that they truely have become my family and have re-defined the true meaning of friendship.

acsot

I have always been the peacekeeper and pleaser, and it's what she expects.

Me too, which is why it may be difficult for you if your mother just shows up when you least expect it. You may quiver inside but stick to your guns. People don't know what to do when they don't receive the acquiescence they thought they were entitled to; the balance of emotional power will shift in your favor.

Hugs to you and the kids.

12

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-14-04 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-14-04 wt study

or by reading wts publications?.

right up to the end.

acsot

On the conclusion added to the Lord?s Prayer The Goodspeed Parallel New Testament, by Dr. Edgar J. Goodspeed (1943), makes the following comment, on page 76, paragraph 4:
"6:13 The doxology at the end of the Lord?s Prayer does not appear in the best ancient Greek manuscripts (Aleph, B, D, Z), the Old Latin version, and the Latin Vulgate, but it was added to the Prayer very early, when it was used in public worship. A form of it was well known by the time of Chrysostom, at the end of the fourth century. It is a liturgical addition, evidently based on 1 Chron. 29:11."
Said Zion?s Watch Tower as of January 15, 1898, page 31, paragraph 2: "?For thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory, forever, Amen.? These words altho found in our Common Version and in some of the Greek manuscripts, are not found in the oldest Greek MSS., the Sinaitic and the Vatican. These would therefore seem to have been human words added to the words of our Lord. So far as this earth is concerned, these words have not been true throughout the Gospel age; the dominion of the earth has not been the Lord?s; the power of earth has not been the Lord?s; and the glory of the earth has not been the Lord?s. . . .

Wow, great point. Almost makes me wish I was going to the meeting this Sunday. Actually I had asked mum if she wanted to go and she said, "well, yeah, I guess so." Then my brother asked me to feed and walk his dog while he's out of town that day so when I told mum about it, i.e. she could go over to his place, sit in front of the fireplace and watch all the extra cable shows he gets, she said: "sure!"

Wonderful work, Blondie!