Posts by Bobcat
-
28Why the New World Bible Translation is special
by pixel inpage 4, 2014 yearbook .
jehovah used his own spirit-begotten sons to provide the original new world translation.
(rom.
-
-
-
65
Will this Memorial be our last?
by pixel inthey just put up the march km 2014 on the private website.
most of it is same-old-same-old, with info here and there about the memorial.. somebody here might post the march km for all to see, i wont.. i just wanted to share the paragraph from page 2 q&a anticle: will you seize the opportunity?
upcoming memorial enables us to show gratitude .
-
-
Bobcat
Copied (in part) from this thread. It includes some comments regarding "until he arrives." The bolded material is directly from the Memorial outline. The rest is my commentary on those statements in the outline.
The Lord's Evening Meal will be observed as long as Christians with the heavenly hope are on earth [Read1 Corinthians 11:26]
Based on the false premise that only certain Christians were commanded to keep the ceremony.
Ask, 'Why is this not spelled out in the NT? How do you go from the simple, "Keep doing this . . .," to the complicated 'who should/who shouldn't' that is in this outline? This smacks of a "tradition of men" that serves to nullify the clear command of God's Word. (Mt 15:3)
In WT parlance, "Keep doing this . . ." means 'Attend the Memorial meeting to passively observe.'
Once the Lord "arrives," he will take the last of the 144,000 home to be with him in heaven (Joh 14:1-3)
Those with the earthly hope will no longer observe the Memorial
Will not partake of the emblems then, so do not partake now
Simple assertion. But constructed from several other falsehoods: That only 144,000 are ever anointed. That only they are instructed to partake, although the NT does not contain any such instruction.
"Arrives" in the NWT at 1 Cor 11:26 is the same word translated "comes" in 1 Cor 4:5. Notice what happens when "the Lord comes":
(1 Corinthians 4:5) . . .Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.
The 'Lord's coming' involves not just taking some to rule with him but also setting things straight among all mankind, some of whom will then "have his praise come to him from God," indicating a good outcome. This stretches the action associated with 'the Lord's coming' all the way out to the end of the 1000 year reign, after which he hands over the Kingdom to God.
Incidentally, "until" does not necessarily have the same meaning we might normally associate with it in English. For example, Matthew 28:20 says, "I am with you until the conclusion of the age." The phrase does not mean he stops being with them after "the conclusion of the age" has arrived. He is also with them afterwards. (Compare 1 Thess 4:17)
But concerning "until he comes (or "arrives")" in 1 Cor 11:26, The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek NT has this comment:
Achris ("until") ou ("when") elthe (aorist subjunctive active of erchomai, "to come"). Subjunctive may have an affinity with a final clause, with the idea "until the goal is reached, that is till he comes."
This comment, like 1 Cor 4:5, shows that the idea of Jesus' 'coming' is not just a point in time event, but involves a wide range of activity involving mankind then alive and those to be brought back to life.
**********************
If the memorial is in recognition of the new covenant, and the new covenant is for all those hoping to gain everlasting life (John 6:53, 54), then, it would stand to reason that the memorial will be observed until that goal is reached. The 144,000 are just a small part of a much larger picture that is effected by the giving of Jesus' 'flesh' and the 'blood of the new covenant' which the bread and wine symbolize.
Also consider that "forgiveness of sins" (Mt 26:28) in NT doctrine is closely related to everlasting life and abolishing death, which is the last enemy removed before Jesus' hands over his kingdom (1 Cor 15:26) This too argues that the symbolic Lord's Evening Meal will continue until what it symbolizes is brought to a completion.
-
39
The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?
by DS211 inso is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.
in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?
7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?
-
-
Bobcat
I was wondering if a list of verses that might give the idea of a heavenly destiny could be compiled on this thread so as to get a fuller picture of where things stand.
As Searcher pointed out, some of the verses could be taken in two ways. For example, Hebrews 3:1 refers to the "heavenly calling." This could be taken as a call for the disciple to 'go to heaven' or as a call 'originating from' heaven. Similarly, some might take Jesus' words to 'store up treasures in heaven' as meaning that they will end up there. Others could just as well take those words as having a meaning something like, 'placing your hope in God as oposed to worldly hopes,' with no reference to where the disciple would eventually end up.
A complete list of all such verses would allow one to seperate which ones could be taken either way and which ones would necessarily require a heavenly or earthly destiny. And then the contexts could be analyzed.
Take Care
-
16
Why does the WT insist that the first five books of the bible were written by Moses?
by marmot inany biblical scholar worth his salt will tell you otherwise, and it's not as if this is a new concept.
as early as the 1700s people were noticing that the first books of the bible had numerous authors.
tell that to an elder, though, and you'll be booted for apostasy faster than you can say spanish inquisition.
-
-
-
32
Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
-
-
Bobcat
No doubt many of these scholars would be christian themselves . . .
Numerous times I've shown some commentary material to my wife (ususally some point that corresponds to some WT view - only the commentary will often explain it more thoroughly) and the response has been (sometimes at least), 'I wonder why he's not in the truth?'
Very curious, indeed.
-
16
WT Study for January 6-12, 2014
by Bobcat inas a heads up for those who are present for the wt study of january 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.. pages 12, 13, pp.
9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security.
" for a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.. this post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above wt sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the wt understands it..
-
-
Bobcat
Paragraph 1 has this statement in it:
WHEN the Messianic Kingdom was established in 1914, Satan’s system entered its final days. As a result of the war in heaven, Jesus hurled the Devil and the demons down to the vicinity of the earth. (Read Revelation 12:7-9.) Satan knows that he has only “a short period of time.” (Rev. 12:12)
But see this post and the links provided there for Scriptural evidence that Jesus was enthroned shortly after going back to heaven in the 1st century.
This post has a list of verses dealing with "parousia" as applied to Jesus which highlights that "parousia" or "presence" is not associated with Jesus being crowned as king.
This post has some scholarly commentary on the gospel phrase, "the Kingdom of God/Heaven has drawn near," and implications for when the "Kingdom of God/Heaven" was to begin operation.
This post has a list of verses relating to the idea of "last days" and how the writers of those verses saw themselves in relation to that time period.
-
16
WT Study for January 6-12, 2014
by Bobcat inas a heads up for those who are present for the wt study of january 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.. pages 12, 13, pp.
9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security.
" for a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.. this post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above wt sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the wt understands it..
-
-
Bobcat
As a heads up for those who are present for the WT Study of January 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.
Pages 12, 13, pp. 9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security." For a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.
This post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above WT sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the WT understands it.
-
32
Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
-
-
Bobcat
So in John 17: 3 they have dropped " Taking in knowledge of you"
Actually, it has been moved to footnote status.
-
32
Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
-
-
Bobcat
So in John 17: 3 they have dropped " Taking in knowledge of you"
Actually, it has been moved to footnote status.
-
32
Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
-
-
Bobcat
88JM:
From what I've seen so far (in the links I included above) all the changes in the RNWT favor UBS/Nestle-Arland over WH, as it should be; the WH is somewhat outdated by comparison. UBS/Nestle-Arland have the advantage of all the textual criticsm of the 20th century.
Take Care