Posts by Bobcat

20

Why a Faithful and discreet slave???

by Crazyguy in

the bible speaks of it making a man fully equipt 2tim, and that the anointing teaches one 1john, holy spirit is also available luke, john and even god will grant wisdom if one asks james.

so why the need for a faithful and discreet slave, in the bible???

?.

Bobcat

exWTslave:

Interestingly, Mark's gospel, which is the source for Mathew, does not make any mention of a faithful and discreet slave!!!

Instead, where Matthew has the F&DS parable, Mark leaves off with, "What I say to you (the disciples hearing the Olivet Discourse) I say to all, 'Keep on the watch.' " (Mark 13:37; "All" is an inflected form of the Greek word pas; See here for additional. And compare Mark 13:37 with Peter's question in Luke 12:41 which moved Jesus to give the parable of the F&DS. Notice the "us or all" aspect of the question, versus in Mark, "What I say to you (plural), I say to all." Peter uses the first person plural - "us." Mark turns it around and has Jesus saying "you," the second person plural. Note, though, that Luke 12 and Mark 13 represent different occasions. Luke 12 occurs some weeks or months prior to the Olivet Discourse in Mark 13.)

And Luke's slave is both faithful and wicked at the same time!!!--Luke 12:42-46

Actually, in the parable, the steward was 'faithful and discreet' leading up to his "appoint[ment] over [the Master's] body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time." (Luke 12:42) From that point on the "Master" expects to find him faithfully "doing so" when he 'arrives' back from whatever trip he was going on. (v. 43) "IF" (from v. 43) he finds that to be the case, he promises to appoint him over all his belongings; in effect, another promotion. (v. 44) "But if ever" during the Master's absence, the slave should 'mistreat his fellow slaves, and misbehave in other ways' (v. 45), the Master will "punish him with the greatest severity and assign him his part with the unfaithful ones." (v. 46) From here the parable branches out further: The possibility is presented of "that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will." He gets a severe punishment - "many strokes." (v. 47) On the other hand, "the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few." (v. 48a) Jesus then concludes the parable with the principle that "the Master" will base his judgment on: "Everyone (inflected form of pas - same as in Mark 13:37) to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him; and the one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him." (v. 48b)

"But if ever" is a conditional phrase presenting a possibility. It is also interesting that the possibility is presented of "that slave" not understanding the Master's will. This is curious when compared with the GB - who claim to be that slave - yet are most unforgiving when anyone dares suggest that they don't correctly understand the Master's will.

Take Care

20

Why a Faithful and discreet slave???

by Crazyguy in

the bible speaks of it making a man fully equipt 2tim, and that the anointing teaches one 1john, holy spirit is also available luke, john and even god will grant wisdom if one asks james.

so why the need for a faithful and discreet slave, in the bible???

?.

Bobcat

The parable makes alot of sense if it is intended for application to "all" disciples. See this post and here for links to various aspects of the parable.

9

The Wicked One hurled

by mistified in

do the witnesses believe satan is in this world completely invisible or do they believe he is some kind of spirit intervening with humans?

how exactly does the evil lucifer "control" the earth?

in what sense is he actually here in this world, and is there anyway we can know he really is on earth?

Bobcat

Regarding Satan's control of the world I posted some comments here.

Regarding Satan being 'hurled to the earth' and what that passage might refer to, see here and here.

Take Care

22

Get out of her My People.. Jeremiah 51:45 / Revelation 18:4

by objectivetruth in

for any christians, i'd like to get your opinion.. i believe that all organized religions are a part of babylon the great.

this includes the jw organization, in my opinion.. what do you feel is required to "get out of her"?would disasociation / disfellowshipment be appropriate?if one chose not to dissasociate himself, would it be wrong to still attend meetings with the hope of turning some to the bible?when jesus speaks of the scribes & pharisees do you feel that these could be compared to the elders or the gb?if the scribes and pharisees are among the religions of babylon the great, what would be the signifigance of jesus words at matther 23:2,3?

" "2the scribes and the pharisees sit on moses seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell youbut not what they do.

Bobcat

ObjectiveTruth:

Regarding Matthew 23:2 I posted some comments here.

Regarding Revelation 18:4 -

Like you, I agree that "Babylon the Great" represents a religious entity. On the other hand, I don't believe it includes "Christendom."

My reasoning is thus (And these are MY reasons. Others may or may not agree with me. But I don't want to accidentally hijack your topic or get it off topic.):

Christ's rulership begins shortly after he ascends back to heaven, not in 1914. (See sub links here for what I consider Biblical evidence.)
I believe Revelation to be written late 1st century. But how late is not important for this discussion.
I believe the message of Revelation is relevant for all Christians from that time (1st century) until Christ returns (which is still future).

With those points in mind, what I believe about Revelation 18:1-4 is that "Babylon the Great" represents all of the religions that held sway over the Gentiles. Prior to Christianity, true worship was centered in Israel with a wall, as it were, seperating the true worship from the worship practiced by the Gentiles. (See Ephesians 2:14) Then, with Christ's sacrifice and resurrection successfully accomplished, Chrstianity becomes the true religion and it begins "invading" the Gentile domains. It was in this way that 'Babylon the Great had fallen' in Revelation 18:2 (Notice past tense in Rev. 18:2.) The way for Gentiles to become free of those religious organizations and worship the God of the Bible (as Christians) had been accomplished (without having to go to Israel under the Law). This formed the prophetic parallel of Cyrus taking the city of Babylon making way for the release of the Jews held there.

Revelation 18:4 ("get out of her my people") represents a call to Gentiles to take the opportunity to become Christians before "Babylon the Great's" demise, which hasn't happened yet. In effect, it parallels Matthew 24:31, where Jesus describes his intention to gather all his people from the ends of the earth. (See my post here for additional explanation of Mt 24:31.)

With this historical perspective, "Babylon the Great" could not include "Christendom." At the time of Revelation's writing there was no vast system of Christianity with its various sects. So the angel telling the words of Revelation 18:4 to John could not have been referring to the churches (regardless of how one views JWs or the churches in relation to the rest of Christianity).

When the "great earthquake" of Revelation 16:18 occurs, all of Christianity is dealt with first in the phrase, "And the great city was split into three parts." (Revelation 16:19a; See discussion on this post and here for additional. And see here for additional on how I see all of Revelation 16:19 fulfilled)

I tried to be as succinct as possible while still addressing your questions. With "Babylon the Great" representing non-Christian religions, it would make moot any question concerning leaving the JWs for another Christian religion (or visa versa). Rather, leaving Christianity, or [re]joining a non-Christian religion would be significant in connection with Revelation 18:4.

Take Care

8

More obvious reasons why Jesus never took up Kingdom rule in 1914

by yadda yadda 2 in

the society has long taught that the immense, heaven-reaching, majestic tree of daniel 4 that it says represents gods rulership over the earth was cut down in 607bce, but that the copper band around the tree stump was unbanded in 1914ce when it says the kingdom was born and jesus began to rule.. matthew 13: 31 - he presented another illustration to them, saying: the kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard grain that a man took and planted in his field.+32 it is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown, it is the largest of the vegetable plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches.. notice the similarity of jesus words above with the description of the majestic tree of at daniel 4. there is even a cross-reference at matthew 13:32 to daniel 4 in the new world translation.. jesus is here comparing the kingdom of heaven to a tree that would have a tiny beginning as a seed but would grow bigger than all the other vegetation.

tree seeds take a long time to grow, and so do unbanded tree stumps.. if the tree of daniel 4 was unbanded in 1914, did it instantly grow back into a giant, majestic tree over night?

no, it would take a long time for it to regrow to its former height and glory.

Bobcat

I don't think Daniel saw any relation between the dream and things having to do with God:

(Daniel 4:19) . . .“Bel·te·shaz′zar [i.e. Daniel] was answering and saying, ‘O my lord [i.e. Nebuchadnezzar], may the dream [apply] to those hating you, and its interpretation to your adversaries.

In the Daniel 4 account there is more similarity between Nebuchadnezzar and Satan than between him and Jesus. Compare this attitude:

(Daniel 4:29, 30) . . .At the end of twelve lunar months [Nebuchadnezzar] happened to be walking upon the royal palace of Babylon. 30 The king was answering and saying: “Is not this Babylon the Great, that I myself have built for the royal house with the strength of my might and for the dignity of my majesty?”

with:

(Luke 4:5, 6) . . .So [Satan] brought [Jesus] up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6 and the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it.

8

More obvious reasons why Jesus never took up Kingdom rule in 1914

by yadda yadda 2 in

the society has long taught that the immense, heaven-reaching, majestic tree of daniel 4 that it says represents gods rulership over the earth was cut down in 607bce, but that the copper band around the tree stump was unbanded in 1914ce when it says the kingdom was born and jesus began to rule.. matthew 13: 31 - he presented another illustration to them, saying: the kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard grain that a man took and planted in his field.+32 it is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown, it is the largest of the vegetable plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches.. notice the similarity of jesus words above with the description of the majestic tree of at daniel 4. there is even a cross-reference at matthew 13:32 to daniel 4 in the new world translation.. jesus is here comparing the kingdom of heaven to a tree that would have a tiny beginning as a seed but would grow bigger than all the other vegetation.

tree seeds take a long time to grow, and so do unbanded tree stumps.. if the tree of daniel 4 was unbanded in 1914, did it instantly grow back into a giant, majestic tree over night?

no, it would take a long time for it to regrow to its former height and glory.

Bobcat

Additional references regarding when Jesus began his rule, compare here (various verses concerning when Jesus began his rule), and here (parousia), and here (re "The Kingdom of God/Heaven has drawn near"), and here (re Ps 2:7).

22

US Dominance Fading Fast

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12.

dead last in math and falling in other categories.. zerohedge announced this morning that the chinese yuan just passed the euro in trade finance globally.

this puts it as #2, second only to the dollar.. metatron.

Bobcat

More on impending US fall from economic dominance in connection with gold: Here and here.

6

Interesting to see which scriptures and phrases are used the most in the WT Library 2012 version.

by Skinnedsheep in

jw
friends

sure shows what their doctrinal focus is on.

skinned.

scriptures and phrases commonly usedtimes found in wt library 2012 versionmatt.

Bobcat

Interesting that the first and third are basically the same thing to the WT. And when combined equal roughly twice the next one (Mt 24:14).

14

the new jw bible and the verses they removed

by Crazyguy in

i noticed they removed several important ones like mark 16:9-20 acts 8:37 and romans 16:24, so how does one find out if there is any relevance to them removing these verses and others.

they of course say these verses were not found in the oldest manuscripts so how can we see if they are correct or lying??

?.

Bobcat

CrazyGuy:

I think the method the WT uses to show removed verses (the verse number followed by a long dash) probably gives some people more of the feeling that something has been taken out. The NIV, for example, simply leaves out the verse number (e.g. 44 . . . 46 . . . ) and then uses a footnote to explain the missing verse 45. The purpose, in either case, is to maintain verse numbering coorespondence with the KJV. The NWT Reference Bible usually has footnotes explaining which major MSS have/do not have the particular text.

Take Care

27

Could i possily be one of the sealed?

by msconcerned in

i went to the meeting last night, (with the start of a beard) and going throught he book study i had a thought.

god our "heavenly father" wants us to have a personal relationship with him because he is love.

well my brain disconnected from this thinking because if the bible was "written primarily for the anointed" and the benefits in the bible can only be mine because of "association" with the anointed, then i can never have a personal relationship with god or jesus.

Bobcat

(Isaiah 45:22) . . .Turn to me and be saved, all YOU [at the] ends of the earth . . .

(Acts 17:30) . . .yet now [God] is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. [This was said in the first century AD when, supposedly, according to the WT, God was only collecting the 144,000]

(1 Timothy 2:3, 4) . . .This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. . .

(2 Peter 3:9) . . .Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

(Revelation 22:17) . . .let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.