Posts by Bobcat
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29Bible - War in heaven - Satan cast to earth - Why?
by berrygerry inreading the oct 1 1953 wt about gog of magog because of the posts about the changes of identity.. basic question:.
why would satan (whether gog or not) be cast to the earth?.
why not cast him to quadrant 4 of the galaxy?.
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New explanation of Gog of Magog: Two Gogs?
by leaving_quietly ini just finished watching the recording of the talk at the annual meeting that re-explains gog of magog.
i caught something not previously talked about, that i can recall.. gog of magog is thought to be a coalition of nations that attach god's people during the great tribulation.
this is from ezekiel 38 & 39.. gog and magog in revelation 20 represents those with the same attitude as gog of magog.. thus, the new teaching (maybe not new, but i'll have to research this) is that gog in ezekiel is not the same as gog in revelation 20. two different gogs, happening about a thousand years apart.. .
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Bobcat
"Those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog" in Rev 20:8 have, at least in more recent explanations by the WT, been seen as different from "Gog [of] the land of Ma′gog, the head chieftain of Me′shech and Tu′bal" of Ezekiel 38:2.
In the Ezekiel account, "Gog" is spoken to as if an individual prince who is manuevered to gather a coalition of nations (from both the north and south of the promised land) to invade a reinhabited Israel.
In the Revelation account Satan is let loose from his prison to gather "those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog," who then "encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city."
Some commentators understand a fulfillment of the Ezekiel account just before the Millenium. (The WT is among these - see Revelation Climax chapter 40, page 292, par.22), with something similar to happen after the Millenium. Some commentators understand the Ezekiel account and the Revelation account to be referring to the same thing.
Back during the WWII and previous time the Society viewed "Gog" as 'Satan's right hand man' or Satan's general. For example, the 1940 WT (p.40) says:
- Satan exalts himself to the position of supremacy like unto that of the Most High, Jehovah. Gog, the chief officer of Satan, takes the place similar to that occupied by Jesus Christ, the Prince or Ruler or King of the great THEOCRATIC GOVERNMENT. he wicked angels, that have direct influence and power over the nations of the earth, are made to correspond to the angels of Christ Jesus that always serve him and are under his immediate command.--Matt. 25: 31.
[end quote]
Bobcat
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What is the perfect product to sell to a JW?
by usualusername inwhat is the perfect product to sell to a jw?.
cheap?.
exclusive?.
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Bobcat
At the moment, JWs seem to be wanting trinkets bearing the "JW.Org" insignia. I recently was given (w/o having asked) a key chain/LED light with JW.Org on it. I guess someone thought I was lacking, like I was a homeless person who needed a handout. (The LED light is bright - so it does have some usefulness.)
Most of these things have a blue back ground with white lettering. But I recently say a round lapel pin with an autumn/leafy background and a white "JW.Org" on it.
I imagine Stoops and Madzay are probably supplying a lot of this stuff.
It is interesting observing this phenomenon taking place from an 'outside' perspective. I was never into the various JW fads that have come and gone over the years (e.g. anodized aluminum to draw helpful energy from the universe), but it is curious to watch it happening after learning TTATT.
Bobcat
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An Elder said: 'They're in prison for a reason'
by NAVYTOWN inseveral years ago, i was studying the bible (jw literature) with an ms from the local congregation.
i happened to mention that i had several pen pals who were incarcerated in various prisons.
no matter what crimes they committed, i said i saw them as fellow human being who deserved to have a friend to write to.
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Bobcat
Before I went into prison, I called a Brother on the phone who had recently been paroled after 2 years as a conscientious objector.
I asked for any advice he might help me with.
He was quiet for second or two, and then he said, "No, just do your time and do as you're told."
Terry:
Now that you've had the experience that this other brother had, what advice would you give to someone heading to prison (someone who is one of the 'unlucky ones,' not a criminal)?
And thanks very much for your post.
Bobcat
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23
NWT departure from greek meaning
by aintenoughwiskey inthe new jw library app includes the kingdom interlinear.
just by looking up the scriptures at the meeting when i went, revealed the following "departures" from the other translations:.
rev 5:10 "over the earth" vs "upon the earth".
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Bobcat
In connection with Rev 20:4 ("the word of God" vs. "speaking about God"), there is an interesting thematic thread running through Revelation that might explain what is meant by "the word of God":
Rev 1:2 . . . [John] bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave . . .
Rev 1:9 . . . because of the word of God and the testimony about Jesus . . .
Rev 6:9 . . . because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have . . .
Rev 12:17 . . . who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.
Rev 14:12 Here is where it means endurance for the holy ones, those who observe the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 19:10 . . . you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying
Rev 20:4 . . . those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God [lit. the word of God].
Comparing these verses which use a similar formula for describing Christians, I would venture that "the word of God" is equivalent to Rev 12:17, "observe the commandments of God." The rendering, "speaking about God," would seem to take it in a different direction. (Although, to be fair, at least one other translation, the NLT, has something similar to the NWT - see here)
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NWT departure from greek meaning
by aintenoughwiskey inthe new jw library app includes the kingdom interlinear.
just by looking up the scriptures at the meeting when i went, revealed the following "departures" from the other translations:.
rev 5:10 "over the earth" vs "upon the earth".
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Bobcat
In regard to Rev 5:9, the preposition epi can have a spatial meaning (e.g. "on") or a relational meaning (e.g. "over"). The verse can be saying 'where' they are ruling, or it can be referring to their position as rulers, 'over.' In the latter case, they can rule "over" others regardless of where they are ruling from (either heaven or earth).
I would suspect that one's theology would be the determining factor.
Bobcat
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Terminology the Society Hates?
by toweragent inin my most recent talk, i got counseled for using some terms that were not prefered.
for example i said "new testament" rather than "the christian greek scriptures".
i also used the term "gospel", but even worse, i made reference to the "synoptic gospels" and the "gnostic gospel".. i guess i never thought of it before, but when i looked at the societies information on the matter they always say things like, "the so-called new testament..." or "the so-called synoptic gospels..." why with all the "so-called?".
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The Tree of The Knowledge of Good and BadHave JWs got it correctly?
by Kalos inas for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.
(genesis 2:17).
jws interpret this tree as the symbol knowledge of good and bad, right of god to set standards for us; hence eating of it means snatching gods right to rule over usthus self-rule means ruination and death, and conversely gods rule means blessings and eternal life.. this interpretation has some intrinsic problems!.
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Bobcat
Kalos:
The word for "knowledge" at Genesis 2:17 ( had·da·‘aṯ; Strong's 1847) can refer to knowledge as in "information," or it can also refer to "knowing by experience, relationship, or encounter" (AMG's Word Study Dictionary of the OT). Adam & Eve could understand what was "good and evil" without 'knowing' good and evil in the sense of setting up their own standard of it.
Bobcat
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To Transfuse or Not To Transfuse
by Chris Tann inwhen my son became baptized as a witness at age nine, it worried me that he could now get a no blood card.
i wanted to make sure if blood transfusions were really as disgusting to "jehovah" as i was taught.
i already found out some things about my beliefs that were not true, so it wasn't hard for me to be questionable about this.. i first looked in the reasoning book under blood as to why we don't accept transfusions.
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Bobcat
Chris Tann, you made some very good comments and deductions.
Just to add to the reasoning, Jesus' statement at John 15:13 IMO also impacts the medical use of blood:
- "No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends"
How could it be 'the greatest love' to 'surrender your life' (symbolized by blood) to save someone else, but evil to give a small part of your life to save them?
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Christians: Question about, "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you..."
by Zoos in -
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Bobcat
A better comparison to get the flavor of what Hebrews 13:17 is saying is to compare it with:
- (3 John 9, 10 NWT) . . .I wrote something to the congregation, but Di·ot′re·phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation.
and . . .
(2 Corinthians 11:3-5) . . .But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, YOUR minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. 4 For, as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or YOU receive a spirit other than what YOU received, or good news other than what YOU accepted, YOU easily put up [with him]. 5 For I consider that I have not in a single thing proved inferior to YOUR superfine apostles.
In 3 John 9, 10, Diotrephes is described as someone who had the power to throw others out of the congregation, indicating someone 'taking the lead among them.' In the surrounding context, John does not condemn those who tried to do what was right, despite Diotrephes.
In the 2 Corinthians passage, Paul indicates that these "superfine apostles" were teaching things contrary to how Paul understood Christianity. Paul chastises the Corinthians for so easily going along with them.
In contrast to these passages, the Hebrews passage would seem to be dealing with a more general attitude of not wanting to be under any authority at all (at least in the congregation).
With regard to Ps 146:3 ("Do not put your trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man . . .), this is a merism that generally carries the idea of any and all humans, or from the top of society ("nobles") to the bottom ("earthling man" or the common man). Interestingly, the writer (of this Psalm (David) would be speaking of people with whom Israelites would be coming into contact with. For most, that would be fellow Israelites.
Bobcat
- (3 John 9, 10 NWT) . . .I wrote something to the congregation, but Di·ot′re·phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation.