"it seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today".. w07 1/1 pp.
27-28 the first resurrectionnow under way *** now under way?.
from the time of the apostle john and on into the lords day, anointed christians were puzzled as to the identity of the great crowd.
For any interested, the ID of the 24 elders was discussed in this thread. It includes all the verses that mention these ones and a number of verses that may impact the understanding of who these are.
Tec:
Also, annointed christian is redundant. A Christian... is annointed... with holy spirit.
Good point! A tautology.
do the jw's have any scriptural basis for this, since these scriptures clearly state otherwise, john 3:3,5,7 romans 8:9 1john 5;12-13????
?.
Rattigan350:
Your statement, "Being born again is not necessary to enter into in the kingdom," reminds me of this WT article:
[Start Quote]
*** w00 12/1 p. 29 Must You Believe It? ***
THE 12-year-old student was struggling to grasp the basic principles of algebra. His teacher presented the class with a seemingly straightforward algebraic calculation.
“Let x=y and let them both have the value of 1,” he began.
‘So far so good,’ thought the student.
After four lines of what looked like logical calculation, however, the teacher produced a startling result: “Therefore, 2=1!”
“Disprove that,” he challenged his bemused students.
With his very limited knowledge of algebra, the young student could not see how to disprove it. Every step in the calculation looked perfectly valid. Should he, then, believe this strange conclusion? After all, his teacher was much more versed in mathematics than he was. Of course he should not! ‘I do not have to disprove this,’ he thought to himself. ‘Common sense tells me that this is absurd.’ (Proverbs 14:15, 18) He knew that neither his teacher nor any of his classmates were going to exchange two dollars for one!
[End Quote - This was, IMO, a very good WT article. Proof that a good bit of what the WT says is quite valid.]
I don't intend any disrespect. You are certainly welcome to your views. But your logic led you to a conclusion that directly contradicted what Jesus said. "Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God . . . “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
This also reminds me of how the WT does with the Memorial. Jesus simply said, "keep doing this" (i.e. partaking of the bread and wine). He didn't specifically say when or how often, just, "keep doing this . . ."
The WT counters, 'Well, Jesus was speaking with . . . And they later . . . And Revelation says 144,000 . . . And so, Don't keep doing this, because its not for you!'
But when it comes to something the WT states, the Society's view is, "Why are you asking questions or reasoning on this? Just listen, obey, and be blessed!"
At any rate,
Take Care
sat on the platform reading the wt and simultaneously posting to jwn.
a beard and a tablet on the platform, whatever next?
do i get a badge?
Having the beard and still assigned to read is probably the most surprising to me. (Not that it would bother me at all.) Maybe that's just a USA thing for the WT?
sat on the platform reading the wt and simultaneously posting to jwn.
a beard and a tablet on the platform, whatever next?
do i get a badge?
Do I understand correctly you were the WT reader?
do the jw's have any scriptural basis for this, since these scriptures clearly state otherwise, john 3:3,5,7 romans 8:9 1john 5;12-13????
?.
CrazyGuy:
See my post 131 on this thread for a comparison of the terms used in John 3 and Matthew 19.
Note also how Jesus left the options to only two: Being "born of the flesh," and being "born of the spirit." And verse 15 has Jesus boiling the discussion to, "so that everyone believing in [Jesus] may have everlasting life."
Take Care
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2480676/approved-closed-doors-curbs-end-centuries-press-freedom.html.
very sad...... .
metatron.
Metatron:
Paul Craig Roberts, for one, (the author of "Reaganomics" in the 80's) is of the opinion that Western culture, including the freedoms that are at the core of Western Society, and the basic principles of which were mostly fought for and won in Britain, that they are collapsing before our very eyes.
There are a number of articles that espouse his views. For example:
And see here for a full list of his opinions. There are also numerous videos on Youtube wherein he is interviewed. It is interesting that on a number of those interviews he is being interviewed by people with very strong opinions, who often try to put words in his mouth.
Yet, P. C. Roberts main views seem well founded.
So, Metatron, I'm also of the view that we are in the final stages of Western dominance, and especially of the USA/UK, which together (not meaning equally or at the same time) have ruled over the enlightenment. The industrial revolution also parallels this time frame.
It was the treaty of Paris (1763) where Britain was officially recognized as the dominant global power. Somewhere towards the end of WWI, or some would say about WWII, that the US became the more dominant of the two.
Roberts had expected the Western powers, but especially the US/UK, to have diminished before this. He seems to have contented himself with the idea that the collapse of their dominance is inevitable, but he has stopped offering predictions since they have lasted somewhat longer than he thought possible. Yet he sees the steps they have taken to prolong their dominance as only solidifying the inevitability of their collapse.
Their fall from dominance will mark the end of a significant and unique period in human history. It doesn't surprise me that 'freedoms' are diminishing with them. Of course, those 'freedoms' were not granted to all that they dominated over.
I give the US dollar, which is the linchpin of US dominance, maybe 16 months, maybe less.
Take Care
1. jehovah's witnesses have a clergy.. 2. that clergy consists of 8 men in brooklyn, n.y.. 3. those 8 men decide what every witness must believe in.. 4. any witnesses who openly disagrees with any of the teachings, faces expulsion & shunning by every fellow witness - relatives included.. welcome to the spiritual paradise!.
Kate:
Thanks for your thoughts on this. See my post # 577 on this thread for more about baptism duplicity and the Bible Teach book. Also my post # 55 & 56 on this thread.
Take Care
since the wt this week has the prediction of a "peace and security" event, i thought i would include a comment from the new american commentary (nac, d. michael martin, pp.159-60) on 1 thessalonians 5:2, 3.. here is the wt's position, according to this week's wt study (sep 2012 study edition, pp.3 4):.
1 th 5:2, 3 is a "future development.".
it happens "just before that day of jehovah.".
Here is a subtitle from the November, 2013 Study WT discussing "Peace and Security" from 1 Thess 5:1-3
[Start Quote]
WHAT EVENTS SIGNAL THE END OF OUR WAITING?
9 Read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3. In the near future, the nations will say “ Peace and security !” If we are not to be caught off guard by this declaration, we need to “stay awake and keep our senses.” (1 Thess. 5:6) To help us stay awake spiritually, let us briefly review events that have set the stage for this noteworthy proclamation.
10 In the aftermath of each of the two world wars, the nations clamored for peace. After the first world war, the League of Nations was formed in the hope of bringing peace. Later, after the second global war, the United Nations became a popular hope of bringing peace to the earth. Government and religious leaders have looked to those agencies to bring about peaceful conditions for mankind. For example, in 1986, the United Nations sanctioned a highly publicized International Year of Peace. That year, leaders from many nations and religions joined the head of the Catholic Church in Assisi, Italy, to offer prayers for peace.
11 However, neither that proclamation of peace and security nor others like it have been the fulfillment of the prophecy recorded at 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Why not? Because the foretold “sudden destruction” has not yet occurred.
12 Who will make this significant future declaration of “ Peace and security ”? What role will the leaders of Christendom and of other religions play? How will the leaders of various governments be involved in this proclamation? The Scriptures do not tell us. What we do know is that no matter what form the proclamation takes or how convincing it might sound, it will be only a veneer. This old system will remain under Satan’s control. It is rotten to the core and will remain that way. How sad it would be if any of us were to believe the satanic propaganda and violate our Christian neutrality!
[End Quote]
Keep in mind, I hold to what Paul says in Thessalonians. It is the WT's interpretation that is full of holes.
Here is an analysis of the WT's interpretation (although, many of the points have been covered in the previous posts on this topic on this thread).
Par. 9 warns not to be caught off guard by the "declaration" of "peace and security." There is a Greek word used in the NT that means "declare" or "proclaim." (Strong's # 2784) It occurs 61 times in the NT (e.g. Mt 3:1; 4:17; 4:23; 9:35; etc) But it DOES NOT occur in 1 Thess. 5:3. There, "they are saying" is the present, active, 3rd person plural of legosin (Strong's 3004). Compare its use in Mt 16:13 where Jesus asks 'who people are saying' the Son of man is. Jesus is asking them about what people think, what is their opinion or viewpoint. If you re-phrase the verse to say, "Who are people proclaiming that the Son of man is?", you would completely change the meaning of the verse. This is what the WT has done with 1 Thess. 5:3.
Also, notice the incongruity of their explanation: You must be on guard for this proclamation. But, according to par.11, you can't know if any proclamation is "IT" until the sudden destruction that comes afterwards. So why must you be on guard for something that gives you no advance warning? Knowing the prophecy (as explained by the WT) gives you no more advance warning than anyone else would have! You have to wait till all is said-and-done before you could know if this proclamation is IT. So what is the purpose of 'being on guard' for such a proclamation that can't be known in advance? For example, imagine being told to 'be on guard' for a sale at Wal-Mart. But you can't know if that is the sale you are watching for until the sale is over.
Moreover, why would a proclamation of "peace and security" by the nations be so bad? Isn't that why Jehovah has allowed nations to rule, to see if they can bring about "peace and security"? So, on the one hand, you say that the nations cannot bring about "peace and security." But when they attempt to do so, you destroy them. You don't even wait to see if what they come up with works. No, you bring "sudden destruction" upon them. What kind of mindlessness is that? Is this how shallow the GB thinks?
Paul says that "they" in verse 3 are the ones who 'say peace and security.' "They" of verse 3 are "them" of verse 4 and are referred to as "the rest" (loipoi, # 3062) in verse 6. But the WT says that it is the "leaders of various governments," along with, possibly, the "leaders of Christendom" (par.12) who say this. Where are they getting this from? When they change "are saying" to "proclaiming," that requires someone in authority to speak.
Their whole explanation is nothing but a speculative commentary on their own fanciful twisting of the verse!
1. jehovah's witnesses have a clergy.. 2. that clergy consists of 8 men in brooklyn, n.y.. 3. those 8 men decide what every witness must believe in.. 4. any witnesses who openly disagrees with any of the teachings, faces expulsion & shunning by every fellow witness - relatives included.. welcome to the spiritual paradise!.
Searcher:
Speaking of "truths" which all Bible studies should be told . . .
It is interesting that you will hear at the meetings that your relationship with God is entirely dependent on accepting the F&DS. Yet the Bible Teach book makes no mention of such a group. Type in "faithful slave" or "slave" into the WT Library (w/o the quotation marks) and look under books for the returns and you won't find the Bible Teach book listed.
I tried it also with "govern*" (w/o the quotes, but including the asterisk) and all the returns were references to 'human' or 'kingdom' goverments or humans inability to "govern." No mention of the GB.
The first mention of the F&DS in a Bible study's line of study is p.76 of the "Draw Close to Jehovah" book. And even in that book there is no detailed description of how they arrive at this idea. Merely an assertion that such a class has been established by God and Christ.
At any rate, they are consistant.
Take Care
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
