Posts by Bobcat

22

Why do JW's never pray for the Spirit of Jesus?

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

i am new on this forum.

i have been associating with the jw's for three years, and was about to be baptised soon (next month).

however, i discovered on time that it is not right to do.

Bobcat

Here is part of the discussion from the BECNT-Romans commentary (Thomas R. Schreiner; pp. 413-14):

The second half of verse 9 simply restates verse 9a and elaborates on it, so that the main point is not bypassed. Those lacking the Spirit of Christ do not belong to Christ; they are unbelievers and still in the realm of the flesh. . . Paul is not addressing what believers claim but what they are, and thus the text emphasizes that all believers have the Spirit. The switch from [Spirit of God] to [Spirit of Christ] is instructive, as is the change from the indwelling of the Spirit in verse 9 to [Christ in you] in verse 10. We should not conclude from this that the Spirit and Christ are identical, only that they are inseparable in terms of the saving benefits communicated to believers.

The elders are agreed with this commentary in saying that the two are not the same. But of more interest is what Paul says just a few verses down:

(Romans 8:12-17 rNWT) . . .So, then, brothers, . . .  For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together. (bolding is Bobcat's)

The "so then . . ." indicates that the preceding argument forms the basis for what follows in verses 12 - 17. Yet those elders and the vast majority of JWs (as taught by the WT) will deny that these verses are true in their case and will look at any one who does think they are true as being mentally unstable or under the influence of 'false religion.' This idea, that what Paul says in verses 12 -17 does not apply to them, forms the basis for the refusal of most JWs to partake of the bread and wine at the Lord's Evening Meal in contradiction to Jesus' command to do so.

The WT teaches this lie so as to maintain their control over JWs. The GB say that verses 12 - 17 do apply to themselves. But the rank and file JW is merely a friend or well-wisher who must hang with the GB and do what they say in order to be saved.

Bobcat

36

WTBTS' corrupt translation - to elevate elders!

by The Searcher in

the wt march 2017, p.11, par.

13 quotes ephesians 4:8 as saying, "the bible refers to them as 'gifts in men.

however, the org's own kingdom interlinear translation (and every other bible translation) gives a truthful translation of the verse: .

Bobcat

Here and here are posts I made (on another board) on the rendering of the NWT phrase "gifts in men."

45

Official Increase in the Number of Jehovah's Witnesses You Shouldn't Trust

by David_Jay in

reports are coming from witnesses that, once again, the number of memorial partakers has risen considerably this past year, 2016. while confirmation is still to come on the exact numbers, the current explanations given for this increase surely causes a dilemma.. imagine the roman catholic church publishing each year the number of members who it felt were mistaken about what they believed in, that this same number of members was likely suffering from problems such as pride or even mental disorders or something along this line.

this number, by the way, was in the thousands too and growing annually.

what would you conclude, therefore about the catholic church and its admission?.

Bobcat

The WT's reference to partakers as 'proud, mistaken or mentally unstable' is a method of 'framing the argument.' See my post here (on another site) for a link to that type of strategy.

The idea is to establish the parameters (or sides) in the debate: There is WT's view (which is presumed to be correct), OR, you are proud, mental or have some other bad/undesirable characteristic. It is one side or the other. There is no other option (according to the WT's framing).

What they NEVER mention is the fact that a growing number of JWs are partaking because they believe that this is what Jesus wanted them to do. And a growing number of them are doing it in private meetings apart from the WT. The WT does not want the R&F to consider this possibility, so it is never mentioned.

I would think that they have woven the idea of 'partaking' into their power/authority structure. So they see the idea of others partaking (and its implications for the partakers) as a threat to their authority. In the gospel accounts, Jesus is presented as a similar threat to the then existing Jewish religious authority.

31

Comparing WT Library - 2011 vs. 2012

by MeanMrMustard in

a couple of years ago, i participated in a thread on this site comparing the old nwt (1984) to the new nwt (2013).

i was able to produce a nwt mash up pdf showing the side-by-side differences between the two versions of the nwt.

herethis site claims it will hold the file for download for a long time.

Bobcat

Do you think it would be worth the effort now to learn VB.Net? Or are people moving away from that? Or is it even relevant any more? I always viewed VB6 as quite interesting (after you learn how to hack away at its surface shortcomings). But in the end it is still 32 bit and orphaned by MS. (There is actually an effort going on to divorce VB6 from the MS runtime - here - but it will be a while.) Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't know whatever happened to Borland's C, but their Delphi product was sold to these guys. It looks interesting but the retail for the IDE is way out of my league. I used to have Delphi Version 1. But when I saw VB's ease of use I went in that direction. (Looking at the Delphi link some more, I think this is where Borland's C went to also.)

That is interesting about WT Library and VC++ w/ MFC. The latest version of the WT Library says it will only work on Win 7 or higher. So I take it they are doing stuff with the API that previous Windows can't handle.

My programming experience started with VB-Dos. I learned on it to try to improve a friends TMS program written in QuickBasic 7.

(Incidentally, the link to "VB dot Net above I did not put into place. And the JWN editor would not allow me to remove it -?!?!)

31

Comparing WT Library - 2011 vs. 2012

by MeanMrMustard in

a couple of years ago, i participated in a thread on this site comparing the old nwt (1984) to the new nwt (2013).

i was able to produce a nwt mash up pdf showing the side-by-side differences between the two versions of the nwt.

herethis site claims it will hold the file for download for a long time.

Bobcat

MMM:

Thank you. Sorry for the delay in responding. I envy you a bit (a "bit" ). I stopped progressing with VB at version 6. Only recently had a (brief) opportunity to dust it off for work. When VB7 came out it just seemed too much had changed to continue with it when it was mostly a hobby for me then.

31

Comparing WT Library - 2011 vs. 2012

by MeanMrMustard in

a couple of years ago, i participated in a thread on this site comparing the old nwt (1984) to the new nwt (2013).

i was able to produce a nwt mash up pdf showing the side-by-side differences between the two versions of the nwt.

herethis site claims it will hold the file for download for a long time.

Bobcat

MMM:

Nice work! Are you able to tell what language the WT Library was written in?

9

WTBTS "Anointed" Resurrection Fallacy

by The Searcher in

based on the following statements of the wtbts, the first resurrection began in 1918, is ongoing, and ceases when the living anointed are taken to heaven - just before armageddon..

(w88 10/15 p. 12 par.

13) "....according to all the evidence, those of the anointed who had already died faithful began to be resurrected to their promised place in the heavenly sanctuary starting in 1918.".

Bobcat

Propaganda lesson 1:

To make your opinions true, always preface them with this phrase:

....according to all the evidence....

24

Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

by The Searcher in

and it felt wonderful!!.

i went into the city to where i knew there was a "cosmopolitan witnessing" trolley, because i wanted to ask a simple bible-based question.

the trolley was attended by an elder and a sister who was another elder's wife.

Bobcat

it-2 788-89 gives the WT's convoluted explanation of John 5:29. That is on the WT Library app.

24

Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

by The Searcher in

and it felt wonderful!!.

i went into the city to where i knew there was a "cosmopolitan witnessing" trolley, because i wanted to ask a simple bible-based question.

the trolley was attended by an elder and a sister who was another elder's wife.

Bobcat

Slim, Searcher was using the WT's interpretation of John 5:29. The irony that I saw in Searcher's post was the elder's natural response to the reading of John 5:29 was different from the WT's interpretation. Unfortunately (for the elder), his WT Library app only uses recent (2000 and forward) publications.

(John 5:28, 29 NWT) . . .Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

In the WT's interpretation, "those who did good things. . . those who practiced vile things. . ." refers to what they did after they "come out" of the "memorial tombs." This interpretation makes nonsense of the verb tenses, According to the WT, the people come out of the tombs and then the viewpoint suddenly shifts to the end of the 1000 years and looks back at what happened during that time where people 'practice good or vile things.' The WT needs this to be explained this way because in WT theology only the 144,000 get life right away. The "great crowd," despite having served God all their lives in this system, when they get into the Millennium, they suddenly become no better off than every pagan who never gave God a second thought.

What Jesus is saying is that those who practice good or vile things now will have different outcomes when they are resurrected. The 'good . . . vile' saying is a merism, like saying "I searched high and low" or "lock, stock and barrell." John 5:29 includes everyone by referring to the two opposite extremes.

6

FOLLOWING/WALKING BEHIND

by somebody in

jw
friends

according to this publication published by none other than those who want to gain followers of themselves, christ assigned the preaching work to themselves and not jehovah's witnesses.. *** w07 4/1 pp.

24-25 loyal to christ and his faithful slave ***.

giving loyal support.

Bobcat

See my post here (different board - I posted this here but can't find it via the search function). It helps explain why the WT wants only a few (i.e. themselves) "anointed" and the rest not. (Contrast Acts 2:38-39; John 1:12-13)