Posts by okage

6

JW's Stand Firm - question

by Haelcer in

in yearbook - 1998 we can read:.

*** yb98 p. 46 ***.

a study guide and a 28-minute classroom version of the video jehovahs witnesses stand firm against nazi assault have been produced to assist educators in teaching about the events surrounding the holocaust.. anyone knows what is this?.

okage

Other than a 28 minute lie, I'm not too sure.

19

A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage in

the society is going to squeak by on 1914. in 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 millions living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving.

but the society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 millions living prophecy.. many of you who were/are witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up.

of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust.

okage

@Cedars & @Elderelite:

Blessed be Rao! May it shine it's light on you. Krypton will never die. And that's why Thor has girly hair.

I can't actually seem to link the two, but Thor does have some really girly hair. It's not even manly macho or hairband. It's Sweet Valley High.

19

A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage in

the society is going to squeak by on 1914. in 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 millions living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving.

but the society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 millions living prophecy.. many of you who were/are witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up.

of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust.

okage

@Cedars: I know it's effect in the wealthier countries. I believe I saw a similar chart on jwfacts. And again, I'm not disputing it's effectiveness with preventing new membership. I'm not disregarding it's effectiveness on members who just can't stomach the WT propaganda as "truth."

The chart is an admission though that there are places in the world that aren't as penetrated by the internet. 0%-39.99% saw the greater levels of growth. These are countries with millions of people and the Watchtower is so aware of the fact that these countries are so limited in resources, they refer to these countries as places where "the need is greater."

Your analogy about the internet being the rot that consumes them so they can't operate the way they did...it's seriously accurate. But that is a subpoint to my claim. They wont operate the way they do now, but they will still be operational.

Let's look at the Romanian Witnesses for an example. They were hit hard by the truth of the Society, but they didn't stop being Witnesses. They became their own understanding of what a Witness is. This can very likely happen with the mainstream Witnesses.

I've written that they may up the severity of minor offenses to df worthy so that they can scare the loyalists into believing Apostates are popping up all over. What if they don't need to up the ante on offenses? What if the internet becomes so valid a tool in even getting the loyalists to wake up? They can use the scare tactic of apostacy and eternal destruction to real in the remaining millions and just operate as a smaller, more controlled cult.

The reason they operated so effectively in the past was the numbers of it all. Even with a governing body, there are just too many to control.

And so it's stated, you have far more experience than me in the operations of the average Witness. You put alot of effort into your work and I'm a HUGE fan of it. My claim to credentials is naturally being able to predict a person or group's next move. You may be able to do the same, and night even be better at it than I am.
Also, I've no intention of trying to pass off my claims as madatory truth. Predicting movements only pays off when the movement's made. And the sheer majority of people on here already left a group that demanded they accept something as truth.

I acknowledge the internet is a powerful tool that will cause many more countless stressful days for the Governing Body. It's helped more people out of that corporate cult than most traditional methods. I am saying it is left out of my original post because it doesn't currently open up the eyes of Blue Pills with ungodly degrees of cognitive dissonance. When the idea is that the Society will squeak by 2014 and 2034 by rewriting history and modifying the needs of Jehovah to reign in those loyalists, I didn't see the need to list a tool that isn't a proven method of unplugging diehards.

19

A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage in

the society is going to squeak by on 1914. in 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 millions living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving.

but the society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 millions living prophecy.. many of you who were/are witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up.

of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust.

okage

@Refriedtruth: Let's be honest, if they dumped Disfellowshipping, do you really think there would ever be the need for faders? Dropping that emotional blackmail of holding families hostage would cause alot of their current fellowship to leave. Faders would come out and disassociate. They'd eventually get newer people because the newer people don't know what we know about the Society, AND they're free to come and go like most religions.

I'm agnostic, I believe that morally bankrupt people are running the Organization right now. I believe, even if there were a Satan, blaming him would be a cop out. These grown men in Brooklyn need to take accountability for their actions.

As for marketing, it's something that's already entirely probable. The trick in mis-fortune telling on a grand scale is to know the lows people are willing to go and mark a trend in how often they go that route. Then you can "predict" what they'll do next. The WTS is an Apocalyptic Cult that focuses heavily on lying and blurring accounts of history. It's not too far off base to figure they'll try it again since they're notorious for it.

1968-mid1974, THE END IS DEFINITELY COMING IN 1975!!! SELL YO SH*T AND GET IN THE VAN!!!
mid1974, The end, um, might not come, so try not to get your hopes up. People make mistakes all the time.
1975-1980 whatever, we said people make mistakes, right? Well, it was Earl Scribner of North Dakota. Yeah, he was the one who made the mistake.
1980whatever-now, There's no Earl Scribner in North Dakota? Than I guess it's your fault for thinking the end was coming.

Again, I hope it's at least 100% understandable if it's not 100% agreeable.

19

A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage in

the society is going to squeak by on 1914. in 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 millions living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving.

but the society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 millions living prophecy.. many of you who were/are witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up.

of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust.

okage

@Cedars: I'll concede that the internet is a very valuable tool in opening eyes to the Watchtower Matrix. Without it, I never would have known about Malawi in contrast to Mexico. Never would have known about the pedophilia or gotten my hands on the number of documents I've acquired. It's been effective moreso than anything else.
To people who've yet to be baptized, to those who've left, or to those who already have personal doubts about the Society through experiences. The information provided on the internet is a breath of fresh air to those with doubts and a realistic warning to those thinking about going in.

Maybe the sample size is too small, but the net isn't freeing loyalists. These are people who believe Jesus is invisible and acknowledge that God is so powerful, they made a list of things He cannot do. So when the Society tells them to dismiss anything from anyone who isn't the Governing Body, they do it. The net may eventually get to them, but the seed of doubt comes from personal experiences. Like they do something and get marked by the elders. The loyalist hears rumors about himself or his family in the congregation. Something that makes them unhappy with the way they are treated or the way they see people treated, and then the internet becomes gold to their freedom.

I don't want to portray ANY of the Red Pills as bitter and looking for justification. That would be the single most inaccurate statement a person could make. What I am saying is, people happy in their marriages don't usually cheat. Many of the Blue Pills are very content with what they have and nothing you, me, or the internet say can change that. But we look for those who are noticing something wrong or out of place. A glitch. A cat walking by twice. Anything that doesn't add up. We find them and we give them the internet. We introduce them to things the system would never let them see. We teach them to live outside of the confines of the structure.

Trinity and Morpheus would have never tried to Red Pill someone who didn't sense there was something wrong. As it's said "anybody we haven't unplugged is potentially an Agent."

A JW who is happy in ignorance is a willing agent of the Organization. So as I said, it's undeniable the importance of the internet in waking up the Red Pills, but I firmly believe it's a useless tool with the Blue Pills.

Sorry I needed to use Matrix references (heavily), but using WT terminology (the "pure" language) makes my stomach a little uneasy. I hope I painted a viable picture. Maybe not 100% agreeable, but at least 100% understandable.

68

8/15/12 WT--Naughty Elder's Wife Teaches Students "The Deep Things of God"

by sd-7 in

page 28, paragraph 13:.

"an improper romantic relationship could develop within the congregation.

daniel and his wife, sarah, were regular pioneers.

okage

Anyone got a ballpark figure for when the Society is going to encourage castration among the flock?

19

A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage in

the society is going to squeak by on 1914. in 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 millions living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving.

but the society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 millions living prophecy.. many of you who were/are witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up.

of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust.

okage

The Society is going to squeak by on 1914. In 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 Millions Living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving. But the Society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 Millions Living prophecy.

Many of you who were/are Witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up. Of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust. So with constant reminders in 2013, we'll see some exits from believers.

But the convenience of this situation for those waiting patiently for a total collapse of the Organization lies in disregarding the knowledge of 130 years of history of what lengths the Society will go to cover up their mistakes.

2013 will roll around and though they can excuse their bull loosely for another 20 years, they will start printing their wrapping paper lies. I don't need to be a prophet to know these topics will make their limited rags before December next year (neither do you):

*Emphasis on not looking toward the past, including the severity of adherence. This was, after all, a decree by Jehovah at least. And at most, an order by the FDS. Maybe this becomes a DF offense, maybe it is enough to uproot a Witness in good standing.
*Discredit the "friend" of the Witnesses, or the overzealous ones who thought that 1914 was the last generation spoken of. Who cares if it was Rutherford's hand that penned the prophecy? Reading that book these days is tantamount to Apostacy anyway. But they will make an effort to create new memories for the loyal ones so they "remember" it was never an actual doctrine. But it wont be fully discredited so that between 2014 and 2034, they can take credit for predicting anything bad that happens and claim it as the signs of the end-times.
*Further demonize the Apostate, especially those offering any commentary of standing prophecies issued by the Society. We live in a world where there exist Witnesses who believe you went through the effort of forging a decades-old copy of the Watchtower and altered it to lie about the Organization. We live in a world where Witnesses don't trust documents THEY download off of the WT sites if you show them something they don't agree with (Selma and Steve, anybody?). It's not difficult for the Society to get their R&F to demonize the words of a DF/DA'd one even if they are using the exact same words and tones as the Organization.

This is something we're ignoring on a major scale: losing a million Witnesses who are too smart to further buy the manure sold as Miracle Wheat is an acceptable loss. If they can change their doctrine unquestionably at the cost of 1/7th their roster, they'll do it because it means they don't have to hold onto the 1914 thing when trying to make another two million studies.

Things are looking grim for the Society now, but we're in a worldwide economic recession. Everyone is looking grim. Except for the top executives. They stay rich by cutting jobs and selling off whole divisions of the company. General Motors got bailout money then down-sized their employees right before outsourcing a whole division to China. It happens. The America auto-industry is strong despite this.

The Watchtower Society WILL fall in the lifetime of most of us. And it will be a day to celebrate. But I believe the only way that will happen if they are Al Capone'd. I'm not saying tax evasion, though it's been reported multiple times that they lied to the IRS about things they should have paid taxes on.

I'm saying they will go down over something hubris has caused them to neglect. Maybe someone comes forward with an accusation about the governing body molesting a child. Maybe the IRS gets involved. We all know for a fact that if they lose exempt status, it's the end for them. But it's going to be something that doesn't pertain to doctrine in any sense.

73

GB: "We don't know if Jehovah wants us to build new headquarters, but we're doing it anyway..."

by cedars in

the latest august 15th watchtower study edition features an interesting review of the society's annual meeting.. one comment struck me as evidence that the governing body isn't quite as "discreet" as it claims.. here is what the article said:.

"there are plans to develop a 248-acre (100 ha) property at warwick.

'although we are not yet certain of jehovahs will regarding warwick,' said brother pierce, 'we are proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of jehovahs witnesses there.

okage

I've already proposed the idea to Cedars that the WTS is going full Davidian with this new compound. It's supposed to be self sustaining in the middle of the woods and gated off. Never knew it was near a lake. I guess that helps to hide the bodies of Apostates. When the family's ask around, they'll hear their loved one was restationed where the need was greater. It's not up to them to see if he made it in one piece. Of course, this will be in a letter, because JWs can't go "snooping around." As for the Society opening up and saying "we dunno if it's Jehovah's will," it is a necessity to make this claim. Imagine saying Jehovah wanted them to spend four years building a new HQ. This would be telling your followers that for at least four years, Jehovah isn't ending the current system of things. A four-year pass to do less field work, donate less money, and attend fewer meetings. After all, they can make it all up when it comes time for the four year anniversary.

44

Latest WT: "Facebook = a powerful medicine"??

by cedars in

ok, i think the writing department has well and truly lost the plot now!.

on page 14 of the august 15th watchtower, there is an extensive section on the perils of the internet, with the caption "do you heed bible-based warnings about the internet?

" in large intimidating letters.

okage

Let's not forget the BIG picture here: planning. If they spend six issues of Atalaya and four or five issues of Despertad talking about how bad the internet is, when something major comes up regarding kidnappings or cyberbullying, they can say how they were the ONLY ONES warning about the dangers of the internet.

As per fugue's post, the first mention of the internet was 1995 and talked about the "moral minefield" of it all. Do they ever post about the good things the internet has done? Like communicating with people who don't have phones or live in harsh environments where even posting an email is an adventure? How social networking helped remove multiple dictators in the last 18 months?

Or being able to show videos that open our eyes to the corruption of the world, like 6 policemen in Orange County, California beating an unarmed homeless man to death? Or show us official compiled statistics of individual states, countries, and microscoping it down to local communities so we don't have to wait overnight to find out what happened in our neighborhood?

I have a comment I'd love to post in regard to the Watchtower, but I believe it'd get me booted from this site. Oh well, I don't have to say it, but you all know exactly what I'm thinking...

25

I'm looking forward to the responses

by wolfman85 in

as many of you know i don't speak english well.

i posted a topic that nobody answered.

okage

Scripturally speaking, heaven. Paradise was a concept for Adam. When Adam sinned, man was banished from the Garden. Many religions, including the Society, believe that earthquakes either destroyed or swallowed the Garden. So Paradise is lost.

That's why Christ rode up on a donkey and said "Now we're taking this party to the sky" Matthew 4:20 (not really).