Quester

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Posts by Quester

• 
  31

  Alleged Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus

  by JanH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  most exjws are familiar with the claims that the gospel accounts about jesus "fulfills" around 300 prophecies in the old testament.

  this claim is taken verbatim from christian fundamentalists.

  checking out these so-called prophecies will reveal that they do not stand up to scrutiny.

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  Quester

  Uncle_Onion,

  For another perspective, I'd check out books
  written on the Historical Jesus. How about
  JP Meiers, "Marginal Jew", which is probably
  at the library.

  Quester
• 
  42

  Atheists at it again

  by Rex B13 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the site changed but the atheist proseletyzing continues.

  isn't it odd how our two norwigs compliment each other in their attacks on god and the bible?

  well, simon, you now have the honor of hosting a platform for the true apostates to spew their anti-god venom.. this kind of thing is sadly typical of those who leave the wts.

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  Quester

  Sunchild,

  Not all of Christianity is the same.
  There are Christian gay people and Christian
  religions that accept them.
  I don't know that much about Wicca.
  But I think a person should be who they are.

  I am sorry that you feel unaccepted by your mom.
  That must hurt. But people do change over time,
  so she might come around.

  I am still a Christian, but nondoctrinal, pluralistic,
  and I think the Bible is mostly nonliteral and very
  misunderstood. I'm leaning toward panentheism instead
  of supernatural theism.

  Pretty much an oddball, huh.
  Spong calls us "believers in exile",
  cuz we don't fit in with mainstream Christianity.
  But I think things are changing.
  Quester
• 
  90

  Complement a Poster

  by Black Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's your chance to complement a poster whose posts make you think, make you mad, make you laugh, make you cry.

  i usually find something that i dig in everybody's post around these parts.

  but i'll single out some peeps in particular.

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  Quester

  I love this thread!
  Warm fuzzies to all.
  Group hug everyone.

  I am a secret fan of:

  1. Ginny's cuz of posts on the Jesus
  Seminar and I'm very into that.

  2. I like to read Sunchild's posts too,
  cuz I am often interested in the same topics,
  spirituality/science threads, etc.

  Quester
• 
  6

  Newby on board

  by Sincere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been lurking for a while and thought it time to post.. i am aware of many of the names from the old h2o days and it is a. pleasure to see you again.. briefly, i come from south africa.

  stepped aside as an elder 3 years.

  ago and am still 'associated' for the sake of my family, but inactive.

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  Quester

  Hi Sincere.

  You know me from Ros' rooms.
  I'll be back in July when JP returns.

  I'm a newbie here too.
  Probably will never post much, though.
  I'm too positive. ha ha

  I will look for your posts here.
  I always enjoy reading what you have
  to say.

  Quester
• 
  108

  What drives exJWs to atheism?

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.

  most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.

  they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?

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  Quester

  Ros wrote:
  "I’m sorry I started this thread."

  Sometimes things don't turn out the way we expected or the
  way we wanted, but that doesn't mean it was a bad/wrong thing.

  I learned a lot from watching people's reactions to your post.

  There was a lot of talk about logic, but the thread was
  absolutely screaming with emotion, did you notice that?

  I think people are more ruled by their emotions than
  they are willing to admit.

  This thread could serve as a wake up call.

  I am glad you posted what you did.

  Quester.
• 
  2

  For AmazingProgeny - Other Religions

  by Quester in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ap,.

  maybe checking out the different religions.

  they are one of the most liberal religions on my list.

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  Quester

  Hi again AP,

  You and I have very similar beliefs.
  I too am learning, changing, growing.
  Ask me in a few months and I might have
  different views on things.
  But as you say, lets enjoy the journey!

  Thanks for the reply.
  I will look for your posts here and chat
  with you more I'm sure.
  Quester
• 
  108

  What drives exJWs to atheism?

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.

  most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.

  they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?

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  Quester

  Sunchild/Rochelle wrote:
  "And Christianity itself isn't the only alternative, either."

  I agree. There are lots of other choices out there besides
  Christianity.

  And I would add that not all Christians are supernatural theists.
  "Supernatural theism" defined as belief in God as a separate being
  out there who sometimes intervenes in the world.

  I have found some panentheists, some who just describe themselves as
  nontheists. To name some: Paul Tillich Protestant theologian, John
  Robinson, bishop of the Church of England, also John Shelby Spong and
  Marcus Borg who have been mentioned on the board from time to time.

  Rochelle wrote:
  "I guess I just felt like pointing out that abandoning Christianity
  doesn't have to mean abandoning your spirituality, and that being an
  atheist doesn't mean this, either. You have to find your own path.
  You have to search your soul until you find what's right for you."

  I think Abaddon? said something similar about just because you are
  an atheist doesn't mean you have no spirituality.

  This might be a dumb question to some, but I'd really like to know...

  What is spirituality to an atheist?

  I have read that atheism is a rejection of a specific concept of God
  called supernatural theism.

  Would you atheists agree or disagree with that?

  Quester
• 
  2

  For AmazingProgeny - Other Religions

  by Quester in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ap,.

  maybe checking out the different religions.

  they are one of the most liberal religions on my list.

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  Quester

  AP,

  I decided to break out of the original thread, since we've changed
  the subject to discussing other religions.

  (Was - Re: The posts about exJWs turning atheist)

  You wrote: "It was a good experience b/c it taught me that other
  Christians have just as much faith and spend just as much time
  involved in church activities as the JWs. "

  By attending the different Sunday church services, I am
  realizing that too. Maybe checking out the different religions
  is helping me get rid of any left over jw prejudice toward them.
  I remember a time when just walking into a church building gave
  me the creeps because, according to the jw's, it was part of the God
  condemned Babylon the Great.

  I've noticed I'm very "gun shy" too, like no way am I signing any
  guest book and don't ask me too many questions. I have to
  laugh at myself. I think this is leftover baggage from being
  so controlled in the jw religion. Did you go thru anything
  like that?

  AP wrote: "I then began to really examine my own beliefs
  and to change some of them."

  May I ask which beliefs changed? I have changed a LOT
  and am still changing. I see xjw's still searching for
  "THE TRUTH"--that one absolute truth. I've let go of that.
  Believing the "right" doctrines is just not important to me.
  I'm more interested in whatever will help me spiritually and
  draw me closer to God and his family.

  Have you tried any Bible study meetings thru your church?
  I tried one and I think I like it better than the Sunday worship
  service. Or I should say that it fills a different need. I like
  discussions and listening to different viewpoints.

  AP wrote: "I then decided I wanted to find a different church
  with more liberal views. I didn't really know where to start.
  I knew of a few that I didn't want to attend. I saw some newspaper
  ads for the local United Methodist Churches (UMC)..." snip
  "...I checked out their website..."

  What I did was go to the religioustolerance.org website and get a list
  of Christian religions ranging from more conservative to most
  liberal and I am checking out the liberal ones. United Methodist
  is one of those and I've visited there and plan to return.

  Hey, I unintentionally ended up at a charismatic church one
  time. Boy, they really pump ya up emotionally--a little
  too much. But I enjoyed it more than I thought I would,
  so I am trying to be more open-minded.

  Checking out the church website is a good idea too.
  I really like the United Church of Christ website. (www.ucc.org)
  They are one of the most liberal religions on my list. Not to be
  confused with others of similar names like Church of God,
  Church of Christ, etc. The local congregation is a little too
  "reserved" for my tastes, although I liked what was said there,
  ie. sermon, liturgy, prayers, etc.

  AP wrote: "...this church is that it fit the requirements I had.
  It is small and very welcoming towards new people. My kids
  love it and are loved in return. They are active in the community.
  The pastor is not full of herself. They don't care if my views on
  things are a bit different. I don't have to agree with everything
  they believe in order to be a member."

  Sounds like a healthy spiritual environment. That is similar
  to what I am looking for. The freedom to think for myself
  and not have things forced on me. Female pastor sounds
  great--what a change from the males-only-in-authority
  discrimination , huh.

  I am glad you joined in here and look forward to reading
  more of your thoughts. Quester
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  5

  The posts about exJWs turning atheist

  by AmazingProgeny in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they got me thinking about something written by someone i know from a different website.

  she is a really neat person and i enjoy reading her posts.

  she has never been a jw.

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  Quester

  Hello AP.

  I really liked your post. Thanks for sharing it.

  The point about just because something is irrational
  does that mean it's not real, ie play, love, etc., reminded
  me of something Hans Kung wrote (well-known Catholic
  German theologian). He said:

  "The proof of God is no more logically stringent than is love."

  I don't think that is quite the same as saying love is
  irrational, but a similar point perhaps.

  Your post also mentioned leap of faith and experiencing
  Jesus in a personal way...

  After spending the last 9 months researching Biblical
  criticism and having everything I've ever believed in
  torn down, I am feeling pretty ignorant about God and
  the Bible. I have come to that "edge" where I've asked
  myself, "Why do I still believe in God?"
  And it boils down to personal experiences and faith.

  Logical? Rational? Scientific? Emotional? Credulity?
  No. I don't know how to label it or define it.
  It's a knowing through experiences and there are no words
  to adequately describe it.

  I would say that faith denotes trust and believing that there is
  something to all of this--enough to take the first step and then
  another, etc. And in the process of taking these steps, we learn,
  we make adjustments, and our faith is affirmed with personal
  experiences.

  I think a lot of decisions in life are like that--a calculated risk
  based on our understanding of the information at the time.

  No guarantees.
  There's always that chance I could be wrong.
  I was soooo wrong about the jw religion.
  I can understand why people would be hesitant to trust
  and leap again.

  I read your intro, and noticed that you mentioned attending the
  United Methodist church. It seems that most xjw's are totally
  turned off by organized religion, and I was also--until recently.
  I've been out of the org for about 6 years now. I'm not exactly
  sure why I've been checking out the different religions in my area.
  I don't really want to join anything. I think what I am looking for
  is association with like-minded Christians. I would be interested
  in hearing more about your experiences with organized religion
  since leaving the jw religion. Did you check out different religions?
  How/why did you choose United Methodist and do your beliefs
  differ or do you agree with the doctrines?

  Whatever you feel comfortable sharing.
  Thanks, Quester
• 
  108

  What drives exJWs to atheism?

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.

  most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.

  they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Quester

  Hey Ros,

  GHP2 here, who has oddly become inspired to post on this board lately. :)

  Good question you posted. I am curious to see what kind of
  replies you get on this one.

  When people mention logic, it always reminds me of the Star Trek
  character, Spock. He could not understand the simplest things
  sometimes because he was too logical, too literal. I think there are
  different kinds of knowing beside logic and if a person relies on
  logic/facts alone they are limiting themselves.

  I too considered the jw religion a step up from other traditional
  literalistic or fanatical Christian religions. From studying
  modern day Bible scholarship and contemporary writings,
  I now know that there are other more positive alternatives
  out there for me. Quester