Posts by AFreeBeliever

30

Helping my husband wake up, need advice.

by Whynot in

my husband is dfed but he is a prime example of someone who was a puppet for the watchtower.

i was able to wake him a little with the sex abuse scandal.

he was an elder and is very familiar with those rules.

AFreeBeliever

You might try reminding him of the following scriptures/passages: Jesus said in the gospel of John that 'you have no need that anyone teach you' for that was the place of the Holy Spirit to guide us into all understanding. Jesus also said not to call anyone on earth your teacher for He is our teacher. Jesus also reprimanded the Pharisees and instructed his disciples NOT to lord it over each other or exercise authority over each other. In my experience, any other books besides the Bible may have very helpful information to guide us in how to talk to someone who was so entrenched as your husband (being an elder), but those books can sometimes scare them off from even being looked at. May be best for you to read these then use the approaches they recommend while reasoning from the Bible which I think he will probably be more receptive to. If he ever gets to the point that he can objectively look at the organization, Crisis of Conscience is a real eye-opener, and although I haven't read it yet, Barbara Anderson's new book is probably also.

8

Much of the Old Testament accounts do not seem to be historical, shows internal evidence

by anointed1 in

ezekiel 16 gives a brief history of israel.

surprisingly, it has no resemblance with what we already know about israel—their origin and progress as given in the prophecy genesis 22:15-18 and also in the description that follows.

ezekiel repeatedly says (16:2, 45) “your ancestry and birth were in the land of the canaanites; your father was an amorite [descended from one of the sons of canaan (genesis 14:7), occupied large parts of southern mesopotamia, and their god was amurru] and your mother a hittite [ancient anatolian people who established an empire centered on hattusa].

AFreeBeliever

If anyone would like to hear an interesting explanation for alot of this, check out Dr. Michael Heiser's teachings at thenakedbiblepodcast.com. He's not tied to any denomination and I have found him to be very even-handed as well as clearly an educated scholar on the subjects he teaches, and down to earth with a good sense of humor. Been going through Ezekiel with his podcast via iTunes and it's very interesting and informative, very indepth teaching. Prepare yourself for Ezekiel 16.

7

Prince: frustration and relief

by AFreeBeliever in

i haven't posted in a long time, but all this news re: prince has brought up alot of "stuff" for me.

having been a born-in 3rd generation until being disfellowshipped, losing all of my family and friends i had since birth in one big go, i find myself going between frustration, and honestly some feelings of resentment, and ...relief...regarding prince (who, by the way, i am not disparaging personally, just, as most of us know, he would have been held up as the perfect example of what not to be by the watchtower organization and the double-standard/hypocrisy is rather stunning).

resentment/frustration, due to my personal experiences and those of many i knew.

AFreeBeliever

I haven't posted in a long time, but all this news re: Prince has brought up alot of "stuff" for me. Having been a born-in 3rd generation until being disfellowshipped, losing all of my family and friends I had since birth in one big go, I find myself going between frustration, and honestly some feelings of resentment, and ...relief...regarding Prince (who, by the way, I am not disparaging personally, just, as most of us know, he would have been held up as the perfect example of what not to be by the Watchtower organization and the double-standard/hypocrisy is rather stunning). Resentment/frustration, due to my personal experiences and those of many I knew.

I had left the organization when I was 17, a few years after being pressured into being baptized, and moved away to a new town where not one person associated me with Jehovah's Witnesses and was living there for over 10 years, but because I wasn't disfellowshipped I still regularly saw my family.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine was relocating from across the states and needed a place to stay for a month or so while she got situated. I lived alone in the country in a 3-bedroom house and said of course she could stay at my place for a few weeks.

One day, two elders I had never met, showed up at my door and said they understood I had a lesbian staying in my house, and as a baptized member of JW's I had a choice: she either had to leave or I was going to be disfellowshipped.

To say I was astounded was an understatement. First they said they were doing it "to protect the reputation of the Witnesses", when I pointed out that no one considered me a Witness and besides, I know male witnesses and female witnesses often shared a house, they tried another tack, "to protect me". Well, you know how it ends. I must add that these two, eventually three, elders, were some of the most arrogant and unloving individuals I have ever had to interact with.

Which brings me to Prince: can you imagine, if any of us had dressed like that, acted like that, wrote songs like that, did artwork like that, and attended our old congregations, how we would have been treated? My father had been a witness for years, then drifted away, and when he died wasn't allowed a funeral in the Kingdom Hall because he smoked cigarettes.

So, I think the reasons for frustration are apparent, but I am also feeling some relief over this. Because the more things like this happen, the double-standard and hyprocrisy with a famous, wealthy person like Prince that the whole world can see, the more chance there is for the sincere folks in the organization to wake up and see something is terribly wrong, Jesus has left the building.

The ARC was very eye-opening for those of us who watched it, but the average JW didn't. But this was un-missable.

So sorry for the long rant, but in the end, I am glad, despite my own pain that I went through and others I have known, that this was on the world stage, and maybe, just maybe, it will wake up some folks who couldn't be reached any other way, At least it plants a seed, something is very, very wrong with the group they belong to. Thanks for listening.

22

Introducing myself

by Bill Covert in

it was suggested that i do a post of introducing myself rather than just starting to do posting.

i am one of those viet nam war felons who had to refuse community service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions of wbts.

my mother was from a old time jw family in the calif. bay area the "garigs".

AFreeBeliever

Bill, yes that was my dad

22

Introducing myself

by Bill Covert in

it was suggested that i do a post of introducing myself rather than just starting to do posting.

i am one of those viet nam war felons who had to refuse community service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions of wbts.

my mother was from a old time jw family in the calif. bay area the "garigs".

AFreeBeliever

Ralph was my uncle, he was married to Judy, my mother's sister. They had four children. If this is the same Garig family, I remember your mom Eunice quite well, and their mother, Mary, although I didn't see them very much after my early teen years.

22

Introducing myself

by Bill Covert in

it was suggested that i do a post of introducing myself rather than just starting to do posting.

i am one of those viet nam war felons who had to refuse community service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions of wbts.

my mother was from a old time jw family in the calif. bay area the "garigs".

AFreeBeliever

hi Bill, noticed you mentioned you were from a family in the Bay Area, the Garig's. I had some family there by that name, they lived in Crow Canyon (Bay Area) for awhile in the 60's, maybe 70's. There was a Ralph, if he is still alive he is probably in his 80's, he had a sister named Eunice, and a mother, Mary, who was supposedly of the Annointed. Just wondering if this is the same family?

23

3rd Gen DF'd finally writing

by AFreeBeliever in

i've been reading many of the postings on this forum for a couplefew years, finally joined today.

i think reading cappytan, and others like that, compelled me to share, it seems i might have a bit of a different outcome than many i have read, perhaps it will be hopeful/helpful to someone.. i was a born-in, 3rd gen jw, my entire family (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and most all of my childhood friends) were in.

some dropped by the wayside as the years went on, but many stayed in, and if they didn't, they still acted/talked as if they believed it was "the truth" and it was their weaknesses/failings that made them stop attending.

AFreeBeliever

Thank you everyone for your comments, and taking the time to write. I am more of a listener than a talker, so I will probably not be writing very often. But I did want to clear up what might have been a bit of a misperception of my experience. I jumped over 28+ years of my journey/searching/struggles, to get to my main point. But if it came across as if I jumped from the Witnesses into another denomination, that is completely incorrect. After being disfellowshipped I wanted nothing to do with the Bible or any religion, plus, as so many of you understand, "where else would you go?" the well is poisoned to feel we can associate anywhere else. After just letting some time go by, I eventually considered atheism, but that just never set with me as being true, so I was agnostic for a long time, really just didn't know what to think and didn't really have the time or inclination to think about it too deeply. Many, many years later, when I did decide to revisit God/Bible etc., I began with the plan of proving it all false, it had been used to hurt me so badly I wanted to take the power out of it. I read books against the Bible, pored through the issues that were considered contradictions, then moved onto the Witnesses specifically and read Ray Franz's books, yes I did read a few of Bart Ehrman's (sp?) books, and a few on overcoming cults and how they work. But, no one could have been more surprised than I was, in the end I actually came to a faith I never really had in the Witnesses. I understand what you are saying Cofty, I just came to a different conclusion from the evidence. And OnTheWayOut, I didn't mean any offense, just being realistic after visiting this site many times and having an understanding of the lay of the land. I decided if I was going to read/study the Bible, I was really, really going to do it, that is when I began collecting numerous commentaries, translations, etc., to use as interesting resources, not as the final say, like we were always told the Watchtower publications were. Some Witnesses came to my door awhile ago, I asked them if Jesus would ever feed them poison? At first they didn't want to answer, but finally said No, so I asked why they couldn't use every publication that the Witnesses had ever published then? How could anything from Jesus go out of date? They haven't been back to my door. Anyway, I just wanted to share a little more about my journey, for anyone to whom it might be interesting or of help. As many of you probably can relate, I didn't have the kindest, most loving parents, as is often the case in the Witnesses, strangely and sadly. I can honestly say probably no one or nothing stumbled me away from the Witnesses as much as my parents. Sometimes really quite cruel. One of the scriptures that first really affected me was Jesus in Matthew 18 talking about "the little ones" and he said "in heaven their angels always see the face of my father". It hit me so powerfully, God didn't like what happened to me anymore than I did! It had just never felt before like God was on my side. Then another passage really comforted me, I know it's been pointed out here before, but Ezekiel 34, where God says he will go searching for the sheep that his so-called shepherds had ruled with "force and cruelty", and that he was the judge between sheep and goats. I just found these sentiments to be of great comfort. I can honestly say that after going through so very much, and really, my heart has broken so many times for so many of you on this forum who have shared the pain of their loss, and the fear of the loss to come. It's horrible. But my heart and life have truly been transformed by my search and where I am now, and I just want to give you hope and encouragement. As excruciating and cruel as it is to lose your family and friends, I do really believe the worst thing the Witnesses do is to take God from us, they take the ball and go home and leave you out there alone. But that's not how it is, they will be held to account for their actions and lack of mercy, they forget that "judgement is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy, Mercy triumphs over judgement" according to James. As a final thing I want to share from my experience, I had anger/hurt/resentment/bitterness in my soul for a long time due to what happened to me, but I can truly say that has turned to forgiveness as my relationship with God has deepened, I can truly pray for my mom now in all sincerity, and be more sad for them than mad. There is so much hope...you really can get through this and have a life of faith in God beyond what you may have imagined in the Witnesses. Thank you for the kind welcomes from those of you who wrote.

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

AFreeBeliever

Cappytan, please see the new post that just went up from AFreeBeliever, perhaps you will appreciate it

23

3rd Gen DF'd finally writing

by AFreeBeliever in

i've been reading many of the postings on this forum for a couplefew years, finally joined today.

i think reading cappytan, and others like that, compelled me to share, it seems i might have a bit of a different outcome than many i have read, perhaps it will be hopeful/helpful to someone.. i was a born-in, 3rd gen jw, my entire family (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and most all of my childhood friends) were in.

some dropped by the wayside as the years went on, but many stayed in, and if they didn't, they still acted/talked as if they believed it was "the truth" and it was their weaknesses/failings that made them stop attending.

AFreeBeliever

I've been reading many of the postings on this forum for a couplefew years, finally joined today. I think reading Cappytan, and others like that, compelled me to share, it seems I might have a bit of a different outcome than many I have read, perhaps it will be hopeful/helpful to someone.

I was a born-in, 3rd gen JW, my entire family (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and most all of my childhood friends) were in. Some dropped by the wayside as the years went on, but many stayed in, and if they didn't, they still acted/talked as if they believed it was "the truth" and it was their weaknesses/failings that made them stop attending. I was disfellowshipped when I was in my late-twenties (how that happened is quite an amazing story which I could go into if anyone was interested, but not the main reason I am writing). Over night, as so many of you painfully and deeply understand, I lost all of my family and childhood friends, including those not attending, because as you all also painfully know, they were under threat if they continued to associate with me, and they didn't want to lose our family.

That was all 30 years ago. I was shattered, completely broken, and had to put myself back together, by myself. I tell friends now that I did manage to do it, but after glue-ing myself back together I was left with a bit of a limp. To say I ended up going out "into the world" would be an understatement (what did I have to lose?). Let's just say, there wasn't much I didn't end up trying, and even sticking with alot. But again, that's not why I'm writing. My main purpose is to give hope to those who still believe in God, and Jesus, and the Bible, despite what they've been through. I threw the baby out with the bathwater and had nothing to do with anything for three decades. I was so indoctrinated that I couldn't even imagine having a different understanding of the Bible than what I had been taught, or a different relationship with God than what I saw around me growing up, which wasn't much for most of them. But I set out on a personal journey a few years ago, and I just want to share what I've learned and how transformed my life has become.

There is hope for keeping, or finding again, your faith, and belief in God and Jesus and the Bible, completely apart from the Watchtower, and actually coming into what I never felt I had in the JW's: a real relationship with God. I believe it's like Jesus said it would be, there are wheat and tares all mixed up together in the field, that includes individual congregations, and denominations. There is no perfect church, or perfect and total understandings of all subjects. But we can actually have that peace Jesus promised, and hope, and rest that God holds out to us. When I decided that they did not have the right to estrange me from God and I had allowed that to happen, which I don't blame myself for, considering everything, I set out to find a group to worship and study and support and encourage each other in.

First I had to go through a complete unindoctrination of everything I had known and believed, which was astonishingly difficult, but which I did by diving into the Bible and the Bible alone, when I had questions I turned to various commentaries and teachers but didn't assume anyone was "the right one", I just tried to stay open to what others had learned and decide for myself with prayer. I currently attend a Calvary Chapel here in California, all we use is the Bible, it is a small fellowship, with imperfect people but loving and devoted. I've learned that God keeps his promises, if we turn to Him with all our heart we will find Him. I will go wherever He leads me, and although I do think the Witnesses are correct about some things, as are the other denominations, so far it is further and further away from the Watchtower, the more I just study and rely on His word.

I know there are many folks on this forum who do not believe, and do a bit of scoffing, I am not really addressing them. I just wanted to write to those who do still believe, but have absolutely no idea what to do, especially those who were born-in and haven't known anything else. So many things we were told are not true. It was surprisingly frightening when I began going to churches to check them out. But I'm so, so glad I went and retrieved the "baby" and have a fellowship where I attend, where the arrogance and judgementalness of the JW's is not to be found.

I don't necessarily agree with everything taught there, but what a welcome change it is to be able to bring those things up and everyone still loves and welcomes you. So, dear ones who have been so very hurt by that organization (not organism, like a body, like we should be), by their family who shun them, by people you thought were friends, by men who lord it over your faith just as Jesus said not to, I know well your pain, but there is hope. I pray you don't throw that baby out with the bathwater like I did for so long. Take it all to God in heartfelt prayer, read His word and do your best to understand it, call on Jesus as our Lord to guide us, and pray for the Jehovah's Witnesses that their eyes will be opened to all the scriptures they ignore. And like David said in a psalm, even if my mother and father turn against me, I have a heavenly father.