shepherdless

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Posts by shepherdless

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  29

  If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.

  witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.

  thoughts?.

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  shepherdless

  If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?

  Most witnesses would just behave and respond like this Australian politician, a few years ago:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf4nlIEHfaU
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

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  shepherdless

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  Definitely not. Most Christian denominations do not think the talking snake story should be taken literally. Virtually the only exceptions are the relatively recent fundamentalist Christian religions that have come out of USA.

  As to what the ransom sacrifice was about, most Christian religions follow a logic and a theology proposed by either Thomas Aquinas (for Catholics), or St Anslem of Canterbury, or John Calvin (for many protestant denominations). None are based on a talking snake, a literal Adam, or even a literal Satan. I am not going to spell it out, because I think it is all a load of rubbish. However, there is plenty to read on the internet, if one is interested.
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  14

  Question for Christians: What Religion are You Now?

  by LaurenM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know many on here are atheist.

  but for the christians on here...what religion are you now that you are no longer a jw?

  i'm still undecided as to whether i believe in god.

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  shepherdless

  I will always believe that God (if he were real) would still accept those who were homosexual, were Muslim or Buddhist or whatever, as long as they were GOOD PEOPLE and don't purposefully hurt others without apology.

  
  

  That is actually what most Catholics and most mainstream protestants already believe.

  
  

  Also, further to Giles Gray's comment, most Christian religions accept evolution as a fact. Almost all the ones that don't are smaller fundamentalist ones that have originated in USA.
  
  
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  35

  Some recent baptism figures in the UK - is there a "bounce back"?

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, round my way (south of the uk) all the way up to and including the regional conventions this summer, baptism numbers have been extremely low.

  but i have just received news of three recent circuit assembly days where the figures seem to be higher.

  (all have been across the last three weekends at a uk assembly hall in october).

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  shepherdless

  Darkspilver: Excluding the anomalies of very low publisher numbers and high ratio countries... It seems interesting there's really only three significant countries reporting similiar increases to Britain back in the 1980's, namely
  Angola 1:210, 111,123 publishers, 8% increase
  Philippines 1:499, 199,551 publishers, 5% increase
  Russia 1:832, 172,977 publishers, 5% increase

  I think the most likely reason for the supposed increase in Russia is the annexation of Crimea. If you look at the corresponding drop in Ukraine and do a back-of-envelope calc using Crimea's population, it seems to explain both the drop in Ukraine and the increase in Russia.

  Angola's numbers are strange, especially when compared to some neighboring countries (the 2 Congos, Malawi). Also note that the increase in Angola is way above the number of baptisms.

  In relation to Philippines, Watchtower seems to have more success in poorer Catholic countries, and perhaps this is an example of that. The ratio of publisher to population suggests there will be a lot more increase before there is a plateau.
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  556

  The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

  it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

  they take pride in obedience.

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  shepherdless

  Marked [Note: there are 2 threads]

  Excellent work, Cofty.
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  14

  Statue of Marsyas died on a stake?

  by enigma1863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so jws have been spreading this picture around claiming it supports the roman torture stake belief.

  this is the statue of marsyas the satyr, a greek mythical creature.

  he lost a challenge to apollo and was flayed.

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  shepherdless

  Someone years ago called Leolaia posted an excellent and thoroughly researched article on the issue of what wooden implement was used to kill Jesus, titled "The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the "torture stake". Here is a link:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/92381/facts-on-crucifixion-stauros-torture-stake
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  4

  I need to know what is truth?

  by Chook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  is it a perception only.

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  shepherdless

  There have been some threads on this, or similar to this, in the past. They seem to end up being duels between sbf and Cofty.

  My 2c worth:

  "Truths" can be divided into "absolute truths" and "perceptions". Some people confuse the issue by mixing terminology.

  On any particular issue there is an "absolute truth", independent of what one may or may not observe. However, in very many situations, we have no way of knowing "absolute truths". We have to rely on our observations and other limited information. These allow us to interpret some things to be correct and others to be incorrect. They are only perceptions, but they are clearly true relative to alternative propositions. I have heard them called "relative truths".

  Some people will point out an example where a "relative truth" (ie a perception mis-labelled as a "truth") was not truth, and highlight the conundrum. There is no conundrum, it is just word games.

  Example: On another thread, sbf used the analogy of an earthworm's view of world. As far as the earthworm is concerned, the world is flat. That would be a true statement as far as the worm is concerned. Well, actually, no. It is just the worm's perception.

  We perceive the world to be round, which is also a perception (or relative truth). This probably matches the absolute truth, in this case. However, if an alien from the 6th dimension looked at the Earth and could see that in fact the Earth was not round, that would not mean that the absolute truth had changed. It would mean our perception was wrong.

  I will stop, now.
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  9

  another kingdom hall closing

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this one in avon lake ohio 25 miles west of cleveland.

  only one congregation there.

  average attendance was only 40..

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  shepherdless

  I am not very well connected to the JW world, but I know of a congregation that was disbanded and another that is struggling for numbers, in my country.

  I am planning to post something on the UK accounts, released a couple of months ago. (I haven't had the time, but there are some interesting points to make.) One thing I noticed is that it appears that there was only one "new-build" Kingdom Hall ("Ferryfield") in the whole of the territory known as "Britain", in the last financial year.
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  16

  The Org is Growing???? Really???????

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower january 2017 - par.

  15 - "we live in exciting times.

  the earthly part of jehovah’s organization is growing in many ways, but growth necessitates change.".

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  shepherdless

  I suspect what minuscule growth they have had in recent times, is largely to do with squeezing the numbers and definitions to extreme.

  I was shocked to discover that all my kids were "unbaptized publishers". None of them go door to door. I am pretty sure that for the youngest 2, none of their (primary school) classmates would even know they were JW's. It wouldn't surprise me to find out the cat is an unbaptized publisher as well.
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  29

  Beth Sarim

  by HereIgo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  how many of you know about this san diego mansion?

  i just found out about it recently.

  apparently it was built for old testament faithful men to live in upon resurrection in 1925 such as abraham, moses etc.

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  shepherdless

  Smiddy, she has already seen the ARC videos. I doubt if a video of Jackson dancing around a pentagon, biting chicken heads off, could shake her faith in the 7 gnomes in Brooklyn.

  Drifting Away, the approach I used was to mention to my wife that I had read a couple of brief mentions of beth sarim, but I couldn't find in the WOL index. I asked if she had heard of it. She tried to look it up on jw dot org, or somewhere, and found a brief official explanation. (Which meant she couldn't deny it exists.) From there, you can then say you found it on wikipedia. You can then detail the full history.