this is something that has always puzzled me.
genesis 10 v 5 - "...the population was spread about in their lands according to its tongues".
genesis 11 v 1 - "...now all the earth continued to be of one tongue and one set of words".
Narkissos
I'm in the process of reading the book "Who wrote the bible" - Richard Elliott Friedman, and it is beginning to put a new light on some of the scriptures. It implies that different people actually wrote the first 5 books of the bible and not Moses. With these thoughts in mind, a lot of apparent contradictions are beginning to be explained.
When I've finished with the book, I'll be handing it over to KAYTEE, as the info in it is very enlightening.
Twink
yesterday afternoon my older son, karl, who is studying musical production at brighton university, came round to see his family.
he had just been to see his pregnant girlfriend, who is staying with her mum and dad for a week.. karl is a wonderful boy; the type of son any parent would be proud of.
he is loving, considerate, respectful and has never once caused any trouble or been in any.
Just read your thread - that is so awful. But we're so glad that Karl legged it. Obviously he must be quite shaken up by the whole episode. As others have said, these scumbags are everywhere. We have problems even here in the rural villages. I say let's bring back a punishment to fit the crime, instead of all of the "do-gooders" with their bird-brain ideas.
(((Karl)))
Love to you, Claire and all of the families involved.
Twinkletoes & Kaytee
i am forced to either accept df'ing without any defense [i clearly have none against charges of apostasy], or to at least 'speak my mind' one last time as i exit, with a hope of perhaps helping others to 'wake up'.. to that end - i have elected to send a letter of da to the elders - but more importantly - a copy of it, with a cover letter, to several families in the congregation.
most of these things never have a positive result, i know.
but at least i have attempted in this way to give a little defense for my position.
Excellent letter Jeff. I sincerely hope that some of your friends will read it and take note, but more likely they will put it into the rubbish bin before they get to the end of the first page. But you never know ! We did the same thing with our DA letter - we sent our letters first to friends (about 17) but not one of them got in touch. If the WT are good at anything, then they are good at brainwashing, that's for sure.
I will print out your letter to add to our ever increasing files on the JWs.
Well done
Twinkletoes and Kaytee
it doesn't seem two minutes since i first joined this site.
on the other hand it feels like i've been here forever, accumulating about 15,000 posts in the process.. it was a wednesday (12 september 2001) on a small island off the west coast of scotland .
in recent months i had experienced a spiritual awakening of such proportions that it caused me to question one after another of the beliefs that i'd been raised with as a jw.
Congratulations LT - we certainly enjoy your posts and are looking forward to meeting up for the curry in Oct.
Twinkletoes and hubby Kaytee
what significant things did you learn through the internet that you would otherwise not get to know?
Same as Loneysheep - JW/UN was the biggest revelation which then lead on to finding this site.
But I've got to admit that today, for the first time, I have managed to complete the Sunday Express big crossword with the help of the internet - my son said I was cheating (yes - but only a little) :)
Twink
of course it goes without saying that penton's apocalypse delayed is the best history of jehovah's witnesses we have (though timothy white's would be the best apart from its age), but i am continually frustrated by his lack of references for key claims.
here is an example where he is talking about reports of drinking in bethel:drinking, then, almost became part of the cult of machismo into which the new workers were quickly inducted.
old bible students such as clayton woodworth and olin moyle objected, and nathan knorr refused to go along with rum-running from canada.
I've just started to read Apocalypse Delayed, and it's very interesting. I hadn't really noticed the lack of references - yet !, but I do agree that all quotes should be referenced.
twink
i realize that threads like this have been done before, but i don't think that it hurts to do one again.. i personally appreciate this website so much.
it has been an absolute treasure-trove of information, research material, emotional support, and simple enjoyment.
and, it's free of charge!
This site is just great THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH
Twinkletoes and Kaytee
during my days as a witness, which was only about 10 years ending circa 1981, most of my memories revolve around how totally exhausted i always felt.
toward the last, i was dragging my family out to the five meetings a week and working fulltime and getting my quota of publisher hours on the little sheet every month, even doing the temporary pioneering bit now and again.
when i had the ministry school, i even worked a four day week to be able to give every talk on the program in case someone did not show up, which frequently happened in our little congregation west of fort worth, tx.
Welcome Woodmonkey
So good to hear from you - you will find on this forum, lots of people with the similar thoughts and views as yours. I often wonder how we (Kaytee and our children) managed to fit in all of the meetings, studying, field service etc. I used to be so relieved when it was raining and we were unable to go out in field service on a saturday morning. At last some time to catch up with normal everyday jobs such as housework and laundry ! - and of course there would always be the usual comments at meetings about not keeping your house clean - you really needed a 60 hour day to keep up with everything
Look forward to hearing more from you
Twinkletoes
hi every one i am not sure if i am posting in the right place or not but just wanted to say a quick hello.
i am a disfellowshiped (ex brother of 27 years), they did this to me nearly eight years ago after forming a commitee with two lying elders (one decent) who didn'nt like my father who was the presiding overseer at the time and stand in circut overseer.
i was married for six years at the age of 19 and when i decided to have a break from her it all hit the fan and the lies started about me.
Hi Pat, welcome to the board, you will find lots of helpful advice here, and people who you can really share your problems with. I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through at present. As others have said, you don't have to "shun" them, so go ahead either write to your Dad or if possible just turn up at the house to see him. If they are shunning you now it can't get any worse if they turn you away, but hopefully you will be able to see your dad.
Keep in touch
Twinkletoes
ok, i have thought about it too long and hard and came to the conclusion that this really is something that i want to do!
i don't know exactly how to write my letter to dis-associate myself and exactly who i should send it too.
i was readding somethings before that had talked about people sending a copy to there old friends to let them know as well.
Hello Suzie,
Just read your post re: disassocation letter. We (husband and I) sent out letters to friends and family a couple of days before sending our letter to the Elders. We thought that it would give our friends a chance to read it before they were officially warned not to, by the elders. We had been friends with many of them for over 20 years, but not one of them phoned or got in touch with us. That was over 4 years ago but they still shun us as apostates. The reasons that we disassociated were UN hypocrisy, failed prophecies, paedophiles issues etc. The London Bethell nor the local elders would not answer our questions, they seemed to find it a lot easier just to disfellowship us.
It took many hours to get our info together (with the help of many on this forum) and many more hours to type the letter. And although they all chose not to answer, it was helpful for us to do the letter and to keep it in a file with lots of other info on the JWs. Just in case we ever get the chance to show it to some-one!
If you want to take a look at our letter - this is the link
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52176/1.ashx
Well done on your decision to leave, it's not an easy thing to do.
Twink
