Posts by Richie

5

Apostasy?

by Marilyn in

jw
friends

has the label apostasy been stretched by the wts to fit a multitude of sins in recent years or am i just imagining it?

aren't people either disfellowshipped for adultery, fornication, or apostasy now days?

or is conduct unbefitting a christian still in vogue?.

I believe that the Society is more vigilant nowadays in terming apostasy to include anything which is not in line with the thinking pattern of the Borg. An apostate would be someone who disagrees with the teachings, even to a small degree, or one who pushes ahead and is critical, even slightly... As little as conversing with disfellowshipped persons, even though they may be your family members, but they draw the line if you have family living at home and one is d'fd. There are many fine lines which the WT uses to determine whether you are in effect treading on apostate grounds, but the insidious thing is that the elders can arbitrarily decide if you have apostate leanings or not... All in the freedom of having an open mind and searching for answers from the bible which the WT cannot give with clarity all the time. Of course the internet is something to stay away from, except if you need it for business and for emailing or just looking up the watchtower.org website...
I remember 2 years ago where some elders had preconceived ideas of even having internet at home: they exclaimed ignorantly that they would never get a computer or use the internet at all, but saying indirectly that also others in the congregation should think twice before getting a computer. How dumb and empty-headed on their part, but then again they are following the line of the WT directives like zombies....
Since Raymond Franz left the Borg, the WT gradually and systematically found ways to bind heavier loads on the brothers, starting with disassociating yourself where this is now viewed as the same as disfellowshipping... With apostasy it is worse nowadays, it's like the McCarthyism of the 50's which is now enforced by the WT in full force (weeding out all the undesirables). Of course they are afraid that their flock might discover all the heavy irregularities going on, especially when they would search the internet for information (which is of course a very smart thing to do!)
It's funny, but it is worse to be d'fd for apostasy than it is for stealing, smoking or adultery and the like - nowadays, even disassociating yourself is viewed similar to being an apostate, because in their view you take the law in your own hand and decide for yourself to want to break away. The reason for that is usually an apostate reason in THEIR eyes! I also have a feeling that there are a lot of younger less experienced elders, who are not "seasoned" yet to show enough compassion where sometimes they want to follow the law by the book, making them somewhat more agressive than the older elders, and make hastier decisions about weighter problems in the congregation, all to the detriment of honest-hearted individuals...

Take care...

:*) Richie

1

Richie exposes motive for shunning

by Marilyn in

jw
friends

::::::::::::::::i heard this incident about this elder in europe, i felt a degree of fear and jealousy inside of me.

why did i feel that way?

because indirectly i wished that i had the strength and courage to do the same thing by resigning and walk away from the "truth" and become free from the shackles of religious bondage.

Richie

Good point Marilyn....
I find that most of the witnesses are so brainwashed into believing that the truth rests only with the Borg and Jehovah, that even though a lot of individuals have serious doubts, nevertheless they are conditioned to believe the lie. The adage clearly applies here too: the more frequent a thought process (or for that matter a lie) is presented as plausible, the easier it will be believed as truth and then gradually becomes part of an established norm of thinking.
In principle the same holds true with some daring politicians, especially those from totalitarian governments. In fact, studies were conducted how a belief system can become rooted by whole populations especially in times of crises. A new leader of a country will promise anything and often lie deliberately, not only will the people be conditioned to believe the lie but strangely enough and more so the leaders themselves will not be able to distinguish the real truth from the lie anymore. They (the leaders) will now only believe the untruth so firmly that it becomes unshakeable truth to them, a complete reversal in kind. A similar pattern exists with the witnesses....
You see, even though I had inner doubts and wanted to leave the Borg some time ago, I instinctively reasoned like this: "well, maybe they could be right after all, they existed more than a millennium and enjoyed continuous growth all over the world - so many things that I have learned did apply to the scriptures, witnesses everywhere enjoy a composure of stability - I spend more than 20 years as a witness - what about my family and close friends? they all believe like I do - I would surely lose them if I quit etc etc etc" -
These thoughts were constantly racing through my mind, not being able to find a resting place of solid ground - but then I did not realize that witnesses are never able to "investigate" anything other than what the Society put before them on a silver platter: you eat from it and digest accordingly, no questions asked but stay a good subordinate of sorts... You could say that my mind was in prison under lock and key where the fear factor had a powerful stronghold on the thought processes... the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, yes..a fearful thing indeed; they are able to literally disband and rip apart families and close friends for a life time!
So you can imagine that in order to make a decision of wanting to leave the Borg, one would almost have to be emotionally and psychologically spent and drained, so that out of sheer desperation a person would make that final resolve to defect and leave this totalitarian and misguided regime of incumbents.
Yes, first I was jealous of that elder from Europe, as subconsciously I admired his courage, but my fear held me back from resigning until the time of near exhaustion...., only then in my case I had the courage to throw out that fear and replace it with tears of happiness by embracing an inner rest where I now can commit myself to learning to live freely and show unconditional love to the ones most deserving!

:*) Richie

14

The UN Library Card Scandal

by mikepence in

jw
friends

please see my comments on the official response of the wts to the un library card scandal at http://209.120.134.34/article.php?sid=4&mode=thread&order=0.

i think that is a great name for this scandal!

waddya think?.

Richie

Mike, your comments to the letter from WTS is brilliant!
The response by the Borg is so insidious or deceptive, that upon scrutiny by the JW's branches it appears so "truthful" and an "obvious scheme on the part of all opposers" that this UN-debacle is only a latest ploy by apostates to bring the Society down on its knees.
Your response to the WTS damage-control was right on and exact, showing to us how the Borg manipulates their branches and by extension all its members worldwide.
I wonder, upon reflection how they could justify the Malawi predicament where the brothers could not under any circumstances obtain a "political" card, yet later overstepping all formerly held reasonings that now it is acceptable to falsely obtain documentation in order to make it appear that one had served in the army in Mexico. A complete reversal of opinion indeed!
Just look at this sentence by the WT: ""Still, the Criteria for Association of NGO's - at least in their latest version - contain language that we cannot subscribe to. When we realized this, we immediately withdrew our registration. We are grateful that this matter was brought to our attention"".
This part of their reply is self-evident in that it brings out clearly that the Society was guilty of association in the first place! They admitted that the criteria contained language that they could NOT subscribe to (they minimized the damage by saying "at least in their latest version") as it violated their Christian principles all the way since 1991! True, only the branches alone received this response which then gives them ample opportunity to go over this damage control with a fine-tooth comb, so when it finally filters through to the individual congregations, it will be all the fault of the apostates and opposers of truth in general. Ohhh we feel so sorry for the Society who are constantly being attacked by Satan and his co-horts (pun intended!).
Yes, only an outsider (those not exploited to fall under the guise of mind control) using intellectual fortitude, can readily observe the Society's obvious determination to mobilize all their faithful followers into a one-directional and united frame of mind of firmly believing that they (WT) alone are God's chosen ones. We the "opposers" are always evil and thus always wrong no matter how truthful we are. A brilliant but deceptive way of mind control...
Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not accordingly to Christ! How applicable!!

:*) Richie

49

DA'd myself today

by Pierced Angel in

jw
friends

well, i did it.. it's official and i'm relieved.. the elders wanted to try talking to me once again, but after awhile it was obvious that they were only interested in changing my thoughts not answering any questions.

so, i just calmly asked if i could disassociate myself.

they acted stunned and they got tears in their eyes, but i told them that i had already grieved and was ready to move on with life.

Richie

Anne, I remember many years ago one elder telling me, when he was visiting Europe, where there happened to be one congregation elder who used to give many talks at circuit- and district conventions.
This particular elder in Europe (Switserland I believe it was) had just given a discourse and right after he was finished he told everyone that "he had enough of this and couldn't take it anymore"!!
He resigned as an elder immediately after and disassociated himself accordingly, as he realized that living a life of a witness with that much responsibility had literally drained him emotionally, physically, mentally and even spiritually!! He always fostered lingering doubts about the many peculiar doctrines and lifestyles which were common with the witnesses but not necessarily in line with the principles of the sciptures.
Anne, the reason why I brought this up is that when I heard this incident about this elder in Europe, I felt a degree of fear and jealousy inside of me. Why did I feel that way? Because indirectly I wished that I had the strength and courage to do the same thing by resigning and walk away from the "truth" and become free from the shackles of religious bondage. But no, at the time I was still serving as an elder but deeply unhappy about my "privilege" in the congregation. I wanted out at the time and yet had no courage.
I left the organization in January 2000 and resigned as an elder and afterwards I was disfellowshipped in the process. How do I feel now? Relieved, much happier, free at last and able to direct my life as a productive citizen and not having this choking feeling of dread and angst each and every day when I was a witness.
That's why I truly applaud you for your decision to break loose from this religious enslavement called the Watchtower....
Today will be the first day of the rest of your life, where your hopes and aspirations can be dependent, not on men, but truly on God who cares for you very much!!

:*) Richie

8

PO VISIT and THE BLOOD ISSUE

by freeman in

jw
friends

if you followed the thread i posted earlier about the po coming by to talk about my objections to their shunning policy, you know that the po had to cancel and rescheduled the meeting till next monday.

oh the busy lives of janitors.

my wife, the loyal dub also told him that i have a problem with the blood issue.

Richie

Freeman,
I must say that you are a man of courage by presenting this truthful summary of facts and contradictions of the Borg. The sad part of all this is that you are going to be d'fd for bringing out these inconsistencies and not because of your inherent honesty by wanting to know the truth of all matters relating to this sensitive blood issue. Once you present this to the CO, you will immediately become targeted as a danger to the congregation and subsequently be accused of independent thinking resulting in apostasy. Then a short while later (if you do not detract all of your statements and ask for forgiveness in the most absolute sense) you will be hauled before a JC-committee where the verdict in fact has already been orchestrated by the "sanctimonious" elders to disfellowship you for apostasy.

Wishing you all the best and strength to both you and your wife in dodging all the missiles being fired from the oh-so-loving Borg, which has long ago made the word of God invalid because of their man-made burdensome traditions, rules and regulations.

:*) Richie

15

letters

by uncle_onion in

jw
friends

two months ago, a friend came to our house and during the conversation, he told me that there were a lot of rumours going around various congs about my wife and i. this upset us.

so we had a think and came to the conclusion, that we should send all our friends a letter to let them know what we have been doing.

so we printed out my website ....www.607v587.com and put it together with a covering.

Richie

Uncle Onion,
I really hope that the letter you composed will be read with an open mind by your brother-in-law without having any preconceived ideas in that he might regard your response coming from an apostate source and thus feeling the necessity to discard everything without paying attention to it at all. In case he did read your letter (presumably in an area of confinement so as not to be found out viewing "apostate" literature) and expressed some interest by replying to you in kind, you might want to mention to him that your research of information had just been the tip of the iceberg of embarrassments concerning the Watchtower Society, otherwise your first letter would have been too lengthy to read in the beginning.
As you are well aware, there have been many more contemptible events which happened and were not highlighted in your letter, such as the United Nations collaboration since 1991, the bribing scandal in Mexico, the alternative employment in the defense industry and irregularities in Eastern Europe to mention just a few of the Society's "discrepancies of principle". True, Jehovah is a forgiving God, but for him to disregard the numerous blunders, mistakes and deliberate cover-ups by his own "earthly mouthpiece", the faithful and discreet slave, it would surely make a mockery of the entire arrangement of things, if indeed this were to be God's only channel.

Yes, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, especially when judgment arrives....

:*) Richie

25

Shunning is worse than the worst crime possible

by Richie in

jw
friends

i have come to the conclusion that the shunning practices of the jw's are in fact worse than the worst crime committed.

just imagine, your own daughter shunning you, not wanting to see me or her first son (my grandson).

whenever i walk around in the village i live and i happen to encounter jw's, they don't even acknowledge that i exist at all!!.

Richie

Jukief....
Just wanted to find out if you received a copy of that particular letter which the Society sent a friend of yours where it said that it would be acceptable to associate with family members while disfellowshipped?

Would love to see a copy!!

:*) Richie

15

letters

by uncle_onion in

jw
friends

two months ago, a friend came to our house and during the conversation, he told me that there were a lot of rumours going around various congs about my wife and i. this upset us.

so we had a think and came to the conclusion, that we should send all our friends a letter to let them know what we have been doing.

so we printed out my website ....www.607v587.com and put it together with a covering.

Richie

Uncle Union,

I just scanned through the information you presented in the letter with bewilderment and utter amazement!! This is exactly what I have been waiting for: to receive a chronology of Society's thinking before and after showing the perpetual changes which are the reasons why I finally left that Organization for good!! It's a masterpiece of studious accomplishment to have it presented in that perfect order, allowing the Society and its adherents with no excuse whatsoever to set things straight again!

Many thanks Uncle Onion for the hard work!

:*) Richie

25

Shunning is worse than the worst crime possible

by Richie in

jw
friends

i have come to the conclusion that the shunning practices of the jw's are in fact worse than the worst crime committed.

just imagine, your own daughter shunning you, not wanting to see me or her first son (my grandson).

whenever i walk around in the village i live and i happen to encounter jw's, they don't even acknowledge that i exist at all!!.

Richie

Happy Heathen, Thanks so much for your post..
It's funny that you talked about having nightmares sometimes...you know what? I had a dream last night about the exact same thing, where I once again was involved in attending meetings and afterwards preparing for fieldservice (I always get a knot in my stomach when I had to say the prayer - I guess I already had my doubts for such a long time; that's why I imagined that God was slowly started to punish me). I also dreamt that I wasn't prepared to do the school meeting - in fact I did not prepare any parts and I had to do the counseling - to make matters worse, some brothers even cancelled their talks...finally I woke up and was happy it was just a dream..
I know that feeling of dread; it was almost constant, especially since I was an elder (school overseer) and sometimes I had to do the Watchtower study. A few times I did not prepare for the school and at the same time 2 brothers cancelled at the last minute..., wooow having a sunk feeling then! In all cases I was able to find other brothers who did fill in at the ring of the bell. Another scary feeling I always had was having to say the prayer before a circuit assembly crowd. I was supposed to give a talk at the circuit assembly in Feb 2000 and also say the prayer at the beginning of the afternoon session: another of those dreadful feelings haunted me for a long time thinking about that event! Fortunately for me, I resigned as an elder in January 2000 so I didn't have further responsibilities anymore afterwards...
It's true HH, when you speak to wordly friends about our difficulties within our religion: they are not able to put themselves completely in our shoes so they cannot perceive our way of thinking, because almost literally we were not part of the world before and things we used to be doing were strange and incomprehensible to them.
I have however spoken at length to one friend and his reaction was predictable in that he found this religion a dangerous cult and was shaking his head in disbelief, but still it did not go deep enough for him to be able to fully grasp the underlying scope of importance and the damage it did to us in general.

I doubt if my 2 daughters would ever leave the Borg; my stepdaughter is a regular pioneer for many years and her husband is a young and agressive elder (young elders usually want to prove to themselves how "strict" they are and they often go by the book and show less compassion). My second daughter, who has a son (my first grandson) is married to a ministerial servant who is doing everything possible to become an elder. His father is a well known elder, who was the presiding overseer of his congregation. So you can imagine HH why I said to you that it is difficult for me to believe that they will ever see the other side of the truth and quit the organization for good. That's what makes me so angry: they cannot force me to come back - my feeling is dead for the "truth" - I have no desire to return and become a zombie again and not able to live my life freely as I should and as everybody should for that matter.
My mother stopped speaking to me a long time ago (I've posted the story in my previous threads) and I do not even know whether she is alive or not whereas my two brothers who live in Holland, do not want to speak to me either. As you so truthfully said, this post has as it were "saved" my sanity in that I can vent my frustration, anger and deep feelings in the open and I know that we all receive a compassionate feedback by people on this board who have very similar experiences and are thus able to lend a hearing ear of mutual understanding. This gives us a renewed zest for hope and strength on which to build our new lives with genuine trust based on freedom of thought and will.

Again thanks for your kind words HappyHeathen - take care my dear!

:*) Richie

You are the music as long as the music last...............

25

Shunning is worse than the worst crime possible

by Richie in

jw
friends

i have come to the conclusion that the shunning practices of the jw's are in fact worse than the worst crime committed.

just imagine, your own daughter shunning you, not wanting to see me or her first son (my grandson).

whenever i walk around in the village i live and i happen to encounter jw's, they don't even acknowledge that i exist at all!!.

Richie

Dear HappyHeathen,
So your daughter decided to join the Witnesses 10 years ago and now you know what real love means! By their love you will recognize them, how sad!! Taking you out to dinner under the condition that it would be the last time ever.., and it had been the last time for at least 10 years! You call upon any normal perosn in the whole wide world and ask that person an intelligent question whether what your daughter did is abhorrently wrong; I can without hesitation say that ALL of any sane persons would call this ridiculous to say the least!!
Aren't you happy not to be associated with this religion anymore?? I am terribly sad that you have lost your daughter and fearfully I am "looking forward" to the same fate, that's why I was seriously thinking of mailing my 2 daughters (who are shunning me now) an official death notice advising them that I have now died...
I didn't do that of course, but isn't it strange how many things we think and do when we are coping with true anger?
Your daughter has no right to exclude you from her love by treating you as a criminal! Maybe, perhaps she might come to her senses as time goes on, but then again I am dreaming in technocolor, sad to say. But then, who knows maybe the Society will change their ways again and "see the light" - How happy the father of the prodigal son was when he noticed his disfellowshipped son in the distance.... he IMMEDIATELY ran toward him and embraced him, showing him the love that he ought to show because he was the father of his son!

Keep strong and take care...

:*) Richie

You are the music as long as the music last...............