Now that you are not a witness anymore, would you still continue to read the NWT bible from the JW's or prefer another bible? Which one would you favor reading now? I am curious....
:*) Richie
Richie
JoinedPosts by Richie
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48
did any of you read the entire bible once...?
by Richie injust wanted to know if any of you have read the entire bible?
- i remember that it was mentioned in the congregation many times that this would be a requirement that we were to read the bible in its totality at least once and especially as elders!.
i myself never had the time (or energy) to read the scriptures from cover to cover.
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did any of you read the entire bible once...?
by Richie injust wanted to know if any of you have read the entire bible?
- i remember that it was mentioned in the congregation many times that this would be a requirement that we were to read the bible in its totality at least once and especially as elders!.
i myself never had the time (or energy) to read the scriptures from cover to cover.
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Richie
Just wanted to know if any of you have read the entire bible? - I remember that it was mentioned in the congregation many times that this would be a requirement that we were to read the bible in its totality at least once and especially as elders!
I myself never had the time (or energy) to read the scriptures from cover to cover. I know of several witnesses who claimed to have read it - some more than once, yet somehow I felt that some of them may not have been truthful even though they said they read it all.
There is a paradox in all of this: true, it's good to read the entire bible, but then if you study the bible on its own merits exclusively, you may be in for a surprise where the WT may have a different interpretation or viewpoint which could be altered at any time. Yet the scriptures are unchanged, truthful and not to be deviated from - if you happen to cling to a particular bible teaching which would be different from WT teaching, you must adhere to the organization rather than the word of God (until the time comes when the Society receives the "light") and if you do not follow the WT-directives you will be shunned sooner or later!
How devious.....!:*) Richie
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I think we've been found out!
by TweetieBird inthere have been a few things that have happened the past couple of weeks that makes me think that the word is being spread that we are "apostate.".
first, a sister that i have known since i was a teenager, looked me dead in the eyes and did not even acknowledge me, twice in the same store.
that didn't bother me because i have never liked her.
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Richie
Hi Tweetie...
They are so hypocrital by ignoring willful sinners who screw around like there is no tomorrow and yet when you want to mention what happened with the UN and the WT, just for clarification-sake, then you are somehow shunned to an extent... This is pure mindcontrol where the Society continues to put the fear factor in front of all the believers so that the thinking ability of each witness is curtailed enough so as to not be able to form their own opinion, based on intellectual observance!
A pity it is that you are subjected to this kind of harassment. I surely hope that Jehovah will forgive them....Richie :*)
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a love so hypocritical ........
by Richie ini am curious to find out how many of you have experienced this: when there is a sickness in the family, there are very few witnesses who really deeply care from the heart, unless of course the person who is ill is very strong in the truth, has many hours in fieldservice, attends the meetings without interrruption or is a aux.- or regular pioneer.
yet, witnesses who are not as strong in the truth will be visited less or more likely not at all.
for instance, i hear of so many instances where a sick person had to go to the hospital and everybody in the congregation would know that, yet the only ones showing real care were their immediate family members who manifested enough natural compassion and love to visit these ones.
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Richie
I am curious to find out how many of you have experienced this: when there is a sickness in the family, there are very few witnesses who really deeply care from the heart, unless of course the person who is ill is very strong in the truth, has many hours in fieldservice, attends the meetings without interrruption or is a aux.- or regular pioneer. Yet, witnesses who are not as strong in the truth will be visited less or more likely not at all. For instance, I hear of so many instances where a sick person had to go to the hospital and everybody in the congregation would know that, yet the only ones showing real care were their immediate family members who manifested enough natural compassion and love to visit these ones. (Needless to say, if this person happened to be disfellowshipped and became gravely ill, then I know that nobody at all cared (even his/her closest family members who are in the truth), except those who have the capacity to unconditionally love without the restrictive (and mostly unbiblical) boundaries.
Personally, I would even say that most of the witnesses have hampered their ability to show heartfelt compassion or deeprooted love. Their love is strictly conditional depending on how the congregation views that person....if spiritually strong then show unrestrained love, if not strong then the individual is stigmatized and the love is less or not there at all..... In my opinion one of the strongest proofs that JW's organization cannot be guided by God's spirit as they claim...!Let your love be without hypocracy (Rom 12:9, 2Cor 6:6), Love your neighbor as yourself (Rom 13:9, James 2:8), the greatest of these is Love (1Cor 13:13), By their fruits (love etc) you will recognize them (Matt 7:20), Love is long-suffering (1Cor 13:4).
.......If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal.......
.......And if I have the gift of prophesying and am acquainted with all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and I have all the faith so as to transplan mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.......
.......And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am nothing......!Richie :*)
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Please Help: Disfellowshipping--Scriptural View
by GinnyTosken ini'm hoping you all can help.. an active jehovah's witness joined us in chat tonight and was dismayed that this site slams witnesses for trying to follow the bible in matters such as disfellowshipping.
this chatter feels that many people here complain about the society's policies without offering evidence that the policies are without scriptural backing.. i must be at work very early monday morning, so i could not stay in chat as long as i wished.
i told the chatter i would start this thread so that s/he could gather information and opinions from several sources.. in chat i was trying to present a point that i remembered from in search of christian freedom, about how disfellowshipping was meant to be a personal choice, not a decision forced on the congregation by a small committee.
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Richie
You know.......you are so absolutely stifled in the mindset of what the Watchtower believes and equate everything what the scriptures thus teaches in absolute similarity. What we were talking about is that there is no scriptural proof whatsoever that people should be disfellowshipped. Scriptural proof, not watchtower directives....
Disassociating oneself from the WT is no reason why that person should also be viewed as disfellowshipped. Watchtower doctrine...: yes, Biblical doctrine?....Absolutely NOT...and that's the point we wanted to establish in this post....
It's easy to brand someone an apostate if he/she has different viewpoints on how the scripture should be applied......
If all witnesses would have the same spiritual composure as Ray Franz had, then the Organization would practically be flawless and devoid of all apostate leanings and false prophesies alltogether.... A bold statement? Perhaps, but it's a true statement nevertheless....:*) Richie
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The UN Library Card Scandal
by mikepence inplease see my comments on the official response of the wts to the un library card scandal at http://209.120.134.34/article.php?sid=4&mode=thread&order=0.
i think that is a great name for this scandal!
waddya think?.
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Richie
Looking.... It's commendable that you dared to post on this board and of course your preference to remain anonymous is perfectly understandable.
You stated that you are sure that certain brothers close to the Governing Body will surely be punished for what they have done because, as you so innocently exclaimed that "after all it is Jehovah's Organization" or similar in that vein of thought...
Let me tell you that all of the GB had full knowledge and is therefore reprehensible and guilty before Jehovah without a trickle of a doubt. Furthermore, I personally believe and for that matter all God-fearing individuals, that one of the strongest proofs that the Borg is NOT guided by Jehovah (and cannot therefore be rightly called God's faithful and discreet slave class) is the ongoing and deliberate cover-ups of all the erroneous predictions and flip-flop opinions made all the way from the beginning AND their stubborn and systemic refusal to admit guilt in any way shape or form throughout their existence. True, all men are imperfect and they are liable to make mistakes, but the representatives of the faithful and discreet slave class would HAVE to be forced by means of God's spirit to direct it in an orderly and non-controversial manner at all times! Never did the GB apologize or even humbly admit that they were gravely wrong, not only in the UN-debacle, but in numerous other endeavours. Not once did they apologize, not once did they take the blame...but went so far as always blaming the rank and file witnesses!!!
Please be openminded and read several threads pertaining to the grave blunders they committed over a long period of time. I know that you were never able to investigate what the Society has done, because they deliberately left you and the vast majority of innocent witnesses in the dark and they were ready to disfellowship you if you dared to think differently or have the audacity to read "apostate" (yet researched and truthful) literature...
Take an example of the noble-minded Beroeans who carefully examined the Scriptures themselves daily as to whether these things were so. Of course the Beroeans did not get d'fd for their "great eagerness of mind", but those who check things out today and search out the scriptures for themselves, will likely get d'fd.
How closely do they remind you of the Pharisees in Jesus' day - they had the truth at the time in the form of the Mosaic Law Covenant, yet they made everything invalid by their arrogance and callousness in administering the directives and principles of the Mosaic Law, so that they lost God's favor and spirit alltogether.... Are you beginning to see how this applies today within the Governing Body? Imagine if this were God's organization, would that not show a mockery of God?
Food for thought indeed...:*) Richie
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Please Help: Disfellowshipping--Scriptural View
by GinnyTosken ini'm hoping you all can help.. an active jehovah's witness joined us in chat tonight and was dismayed that this site slams witnesses for trying to follow the bible in matters such as disfellowshipping.
this chatter feels that many people here complain about the society's policies without offering evidence that the policies are without scriptural backing.. i must be at work very early monday morning, so i could not stay in chat as long as i wished.
i told the chatter i would start this thread so that s/he could gather information and opinions from several sources.. in chat i was trying to present a point that i remembered from in search of christian freedom, about how disfellowshipping was meant to be a personal choice, not a decision forced on the congregation by a small committee.
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Richie
Re: Shunning is worse than the worst crime poss... Oct 26, 2001 10:13
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This is a thread which I received from Englishman, who explains it exactly as it should be (from the Scriptures)......One of the best sites about JW's and particularly DF'ing, (you might have to ignore the odd relgious plug)is at http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/friends.html
Here's how it explains the un-scripturalness of shunning:"Actually fornication is reported among you, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man has of his father ... In my letter I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not meaning entirely with the fornicator's of this world or the greedy persons and extortion's or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. But now I an writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reveler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor 5:1, 9-13)
In First Corinthians chapter 5 a man was having sexual relations with his fathers wife on a continual basis. It was not a one time event. This man was continually having sexual relations with his father's wife. For this he was to be removed from the congregation. Paul's counsel was for anyone called a brother who was continually practicing fornication, revelry, greediness, drunkenness and extortion was to be removed from the congregation, not even to eat a meal with them. This was not a person who did an occasional wrong and was willing to make corrections. This had absolutely nothing to do with a person who does not go along with all the teachings of a particular religious organization's policies and rulings. Nor does it have anything to do with persons being required to follow doctrinal and theological interpretations of scripture. It does include all those who go against the meaning of the Christ, by a continual practice of selfish and hurtful actions against their fellow man. Only a continual and thoughtless practice of hurtful and harmful acts towards others would merit such a removal. Misapplying this scripture, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Jehovah's Witnesses, use this scripture to excommunicate or disfellowship any member who disagrees and questions any of their doctrinal teachings and theological interpretations, this being a highly effective controlling tool in manipulating their followers.
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Ginny, please ask why it is that someone who disassociates himself should be viewed the same as a disfellowshipped person.... is that biblical??? No!!!!! However, the Society deemed it necessary to equate disassociation with disfellowshippjng for the simple reason to keep the witnesses in line so they would not leave the organization en masse. I have said before that if the witnesses would have the option to choose to disassociate themselves and continue to be allowed to associate with witnesses, at least 50% of all witnesses would do so.... No scriptural basis - then the Borg will make their own rules - sound familiar? Yes indeed it does!!!:*) Richie
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burn your Ray Franz books
by edward gentry inwent over to a disassociated witnesses house the other night,.
former org hatchet man,now as violently opposed to the org as he was, once, enslaved by them.. hes talkin "raymond franz says this...franz says that" all night.. it made me sick to my guts.. franz was pure borg heirachy, born and bred to power.. now hes opposed (if he aint dead by now)and these ex borg mind slaves are still listening to the guy like hes a repository of truth.. im not attacking ray franz,hes probably a nice guy,im just floating an idea.
what is a free mind?.
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Richie
Tj, Raymond already left the Borg in his own way - he resigned from the GB because he could not stand the hypocrisy of the hierarchy - afterwards the Borg tried several times to get back at him because he knew the inner workings at Brooklyn headquarters. Eventually the Borg got him on a technicality (eating in a restaurant with a disassociated friend, who was also his employer) and they mercilessly disfellowshipped him.
You were making a comparison, very poorly indeed, of a nazi turned former nazi and then you state that if that person would be in the wrong hands again that he would be a dangerous person. Remember, nazis were nazis when Germany had its power...when the war was over, of course they all had to sing a different tune - but to compare this with Ray Franz? That's grossly unfair and unkind! What about the JW's who have become ex-JW's?? We all were of the same mindset, but we are not now anymore, but if I were in the wrong hands, I would NEVER have the same mindset anymore, would you now that you are NOT a witness anymore?? - the same with Ray Franz: he was never of the same mindset in the beginning (including Ed Dunlap) - only by entering the Governing Body did he begin to realize how corrupt and self-centered they were, otherwise he would have never known beforehand! Then you compare Saul of Tarsus who persecuted the Christians, then he changed to become the aposle Paul -yes the apostle Paul was a thinking man but at the same time he was loyal to the system - he changed completely and became a faithful man - would Paul have changed if he were in the wrong hands?? Of course not...so why blame Ray Franz? Check first and then speak - sometimes our minds can be a trap in that we race to conclusions and afterwards we do the thinking...Let's not be the same as the witnesses: they do because they were told to do, they think because they were told to think...:*) Richie
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Help!! How can you make a witness tell the truth?
by Bridgette ini'm talking the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about their organization---up front, not subtly creeping it in.
two of them caught me by surprise this morning at my door (nobody here knows me from adam) offering the awake magazine on battered women.
i was incredulous, having had experience with being a battered woman and a witness all at the same time.
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Richie
Bridgette, in addition to my previous reply to you, I would also strongly suggest that you look up the comments of uncle_onion under the posting "letters", where you will find a revealing letter which he wrote exposing the falsehoods of the Society at length...
Hope you will read this as it is quite a fascinating summary of flip-flop reasoning and backtracking on the part of the WT. In fact I was beginning to find everything quite comical just to see how the Society finds excuse after excuse but always reasoning on the light getting brigher and brighter or putting the blame on the rank and file witnesses...
:*) Richie
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Help!! How can you make a witness tell the truth?
by Bridgette ini'm talking the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about their organization---up front, not subtly creeping it in.
two of them caught me by surprise this morning at my door (nobody here knows me from adam) offering the awake magazine on battered women.
i was incredulous, having had experience with being a battered woman and a witness all at the same time.
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Richie
Bridgette, you were talking about finding out if you could find a concise summary on most of the falsities the Society had been involved in; I found this information from Bill Parker - check his comments under my post "Shunning is worse than the worst crime committed" -
The information given will be most helpful in repudiating the WT's claim that it is God's "mouthpiece", because it certainly is NOT!:*) Richie