Posts by jeremiah18:5-10

37

Fictious "Universal Sovereignty" Issue Proposed By Watchtower Corporation Is Idiotic

by frankiespeakin in

ok so a big part of the wt corporation ideological structure is the invention of the issue before all creation being "universal sovereignty".. the story goes like this very basically:.

for untold years jehovah's soverneignty was never challenged, then after so many millions of years jehovahs started his earthly creation with adam&eve being the culmination of that work.

soon afterwards satan seduces eve to disobey jehovah and thus we have the very first act of disobedience satan slanders god by telling eve god is selfish as to the reason he forbids eating this other wise nice looking fruit adam joins his wife in the rebellion.. god in his infinite wisdom allows this rebellion because this was a challenge to his sovereingty and so he is allowing a reasonable amount of time to let mankind and angels see for themselves that his rulership is better that satan's.. so basically it is like a bet he has with satan or who's rulership is best, and he's allowing time to prove his is far superior.. well if you look at it logically it don't add up.. 1. if god is going to allow satan to prove his point about who's rulership is better why is he alway interfereing and interveining that's unfair.. 2. god goes on killing sprees of people man women and chilldren (not very smart for some trying to prove his rulership is better for people to follow.. 3. god show himself to be jealous (not a good trait for a ruler to endear himself to people).. 4. god's scare people to except his ruler ship.. and i have even more reason to show the whole idea is a made up sham..

jeremiah18:5-10

If the issue of universal sovereignty is real, Satan's rule versus God's rule, and we all have to choose, there is a big advantage for Satan.

As imperfect humans, we are pre-disposed to sin. To say we have a choice or anywhere close to the same choice as perfect beings is ludicrous.

Your inclination is to sin (rebel). How can that be a fair opportunity? The sin is held against you, its not overlooked. You are then faced with the choice of keep sinning and die or submit to God and he will forgive you and heal you. Again is sin a choice? Are you choosing to be imperfect? Emphatically the answer is no.

There isn't any logical or fair way to settle such an issue, its not a level playing field. To gamble with the lives of living thinking feeling beings is disgusting. How could such an act endear either to a person. The picture paints us as nothing but pawns or poker chips in a celestial poker game in which one (God) can change the rules as often and in whatever way he wishes.

I can't buy in to the universal sovereignty issue as being legit.

64

I'm turning myself in. Lurking elders, are you listening?

by Eve Deceived in

i think it's fitting for my very first post to be a thread on jw.net turning myself in to any lurking elders out there on a witch-hunt to cleanse the congregation so that god's choosen ones can "remain in god's love.

" so i'm sorry to all you awesome, truthful apostates on this site, but this thread is really intended for any lurking nazis -- i mean, the taliban -- ugh, i mean elders of the world's most "loving" cult religion.. i am an apostate.

here, i'll save you the trouble:.

jeremiah18:5-10

Welcome Elizabeth. I admire your approach and the clear comprehension of jw relationships.

The fact is they take the approach that your "real family" is relatedto you, not by blood, but rather by spirit.

Therefore I take the same approach. Any family member that cuts me off is not my real family, I consider the people of like faith and mind and spirit to be my family.

Once you steal the power from the organization from them, what do they have left? No authority, nothing to hold over you.

Welcome, enjoy your new friends and family. Here you will find acceptance, approval, attention, and appreciation, the things jws don't provide.

64

I'm new, please come and meet me!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

long time lurker, first time poster.

i'm really glad i can join your community because i've been in the wts for the last 14 years and now i'm on my way out and it's great to meet like-minded people!.

about me: i started learning jw ways when i was in my teens.

jeremiah18:5-10

Welcome aboard. Its always good to have new member, especially one with a brain.

25

Didn't Jesus symbolically give a blood transfusion for all of mankind?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jesus poured out his life blood, his soul, on behalf of mankind.

the wine taken at the memorial of christ's death represents this life, given as a sacrifice to atone for adamic sins.

jesus said that unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in yourself.

jeremiah18:5-10

Brilliant reasoning!!!!

79

I Got disfellowshiped..wana die!

by Chichi89 in

jw
friends

i jus got dissfellowshiped at th last week..i feel like dying..i attended th meetings yesterday and ita ws jus horrible..came back home in tears....... people i used to cal my friends nw cant look me in the eye..so heartbroken confused and giving up on life !.

jeremiah18:5-10

Chi Chi I haven't read the second page of comments but it sounds like the JW's is all you've ever known, that your entire life and self-worth is tied up with them.

Have you personally ever just read the scriptures with an open mind? Please make it a goal to begin asap. Read about Jesus treatment of people. Read about the message of forgiveness and acceptance it offers. Jesus message was of unconditional love.

vPlease evaluate how you personally feel about your actions. Make an effort to evaluate these actions outside of the "box" of just what you've been told by JW's. Try to determine if you arrive at the conclusion that you have sinned. Don't just base your opinions on just what the elders have told you.

Its important that you begin the process of learning how to think for yourself and how to develop your own ability to use your power of reason to know right and wrong, rather than being solely dependant on someone else (imperfect humans) telling you this. Also, you need to determine the level of faith you have in Jehovah as your God and whether you have a relationship with him personally. Its his opinion that matters, not the human interpretation of his opinion by people who can't read hearts.

Please strive to feel good about your decisions in life. Feel good about who you are and who you want to be. Set goals toachieve that you can feel proud of. Evaluate your strengths as a person and be around people who love you for being you. I'm mso sorry for your sadness.

27

Watch Tower Corporation Listed Top Forty Revenue-Generating Companies in New York City, Reporting an Annual Revenue of About 951 Million US Dollars

by frankiespeakin in

so are they a religious non profit corporation?

how is this dicotomy possible that they could generate such revenue and not make an accounting to irs?.

originally known as the peoples pulpit association, the organization was incorporated in 1909 when the society's principal offices moved to brooklyn, new york.

jeremiah18:5-10

Can you post the reference please? I would like to read it.

50

"Why Do Many Male Jehovah Witnesses Who Learn TTATT Grow Beards"?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

the year once 1983 and the brother who use to study the bible with me drove by and had a full on "charles manson" looking facial hair and beard.

i asked tina, a friend what's up with him?

tina was 19 and a hot red-head woman who was partially in the religion but had problems with fornication.

jeremiah18:5-10

My wife asked me to, loved it and it stayed.

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

@ sir82

Curiously, if disfellowshipped JWs are honest and state those reasons as their motivation for wanting to return, they'll never be allowed to.

I.e., as a final indignity, disfellowshipped JWs must lie to the elders bout their reason for wanting to return, if they are to have any hope of actually doing so.

Personally, I don't think those who try to return would have to lie. I don't think they realize their motives are messed up. I believe they associate "returning to the congregation" with "returning to Jehovah" it's one and the same to them. Unfortunately it's not the same!!

I've attempted to return 3 times, and each time was for the above stated reasons, even though I didn't realize it, now I do. Even if I did make such a return successfully, I can't unlearn what I have discovered in my own Bible study and research from this site and others. I would be nothing but miserable. i would have to put on an act around friends and family and be untrue to myself. No way I'm ever going to live like that. Kudos to those who can!

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

@sir82

Therefore, how satisfying and rewarding is it for an individual to betray their true self and convictions just to maintain relationships with individuals (friends or family) that we realize are obviously blinded and mentally captive and who are delusional in thinking that we are the ones that are "sick, misguided, and mislead"?

I realize that the ultimate desire of such ones whether DF'd or inactive or fading is that they will help their believing friends and family to escape in tact. Truly that is a noble endeavor and to be admired. But at what cost to you? What cost to your family that has left with you? I also realize this is a touchy subject and I'm in no way ridiculing those who make this difficult choice, I simply have a difficult time comprhending it anymore.

For me anyway, my personal integrity far outweighed any supposed, hoped-for accomplishment that I likely would never achieve by hanging on and staying in. Perhaps I'm selfish. Perhaps I'm just lucky because I escaped with my wife and kids, something many of you have not been able to do. I feel for you.

Still, I maintain that actually owning your convictions and living accordingly will not only result in a better, happier life for you, but will also be more likely to have a deep impact on the still-believing family members trapped inside. I believe this because what keeps them in more than anything is "who else would we go to?" or "where else would we go?" Whichever the WT question that they mis-quote is. Therefore I propose that by finding happiness and success outside of the WT and moving on actually shows them that there is somehwere to go and that there is happiness and satisfaction to be had in life outside of the WT. Who knows how powerful and impactful that could be in giving them the courage to wake up.

Thats my hope and belief anyway. I hope I'm not to naieve about this and I hope no one takes this position as being disrespectful toward those who stay in for the sake of family.

57

Did YOU Go A Bit Wild or Crazy When You Left The "Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

jeremiah18:5-10

Actually it happened before I "left the 'truth'", that's why I got DF'd- lol