The notion in the bible is that prayer is an act of worship and the very same book indicates that god only answers the prayers or acts in love to preserve those who worship him. Therefore the act of praying is more about submission than trying to get what you want or need, according to the bible. Its only about what you want as long as what you want or need is in harmony with what god wants or needs. By that reasoning then prayer would be necessary if for nothing more than an act of worship showing complete submission to god. So, with that being said, I think its less of an contradiction and more of a conondrum, because your happiness and satisfaction is totally irrelevant.
jeremiah18:5-10
JoinedPosts by jeremiah18:5-10
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A Contradiction?
by Yan Bibiyan inbelievers know that everything is in gods hands.
this is one of the pillars of their faith.. .
if believers want anything to happen, they pray to god.. why?.
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Who Are Your Past Circuit Overseers? It's a small world..
by mentallyfree31 inwho were your past circuit overseers?
i'm sure a lot of us actually know mutual people, as the co's relocate all over the country.. here's a few from the southeast us: (let me know if you recognize any names and post yours too please...).
ellwood johnson (new york/philadelphia area for several years also).
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jeremiah18:5-10
The ones I can remember:
Meekins
Paik
Duke
Peck
Streubing
Burdge
Osbek
Septor
Purini
Jolly
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Does WTS want the goverments to turn on them?
by jeremiah18:5-10 inconsidering that the wts has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "god's people", does wts want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?.
any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together.
any victories are viewed as gods blessing.. it seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.
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jeremiah18:5-10
But wouldn't taking a course toward "mainstream" betray their belief and teaching of being "in the last of the last days"?
Of course that would require logic to realize that and we all know that die hard JW's leave logic in the baptismal pool water. I'm so frustrated with this organization, I want to scratch my eyes out!!!!!
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Does WTS want the goverments to turn on them?
by jeremiah18:5-10 inconsidering that the wts has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "god's people", does wts want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?.
any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together.
any victories are viewed as gods blessing.. it seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.
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jeremiah18:5-10
I fear there will never be a change to the child abuse policies, DF'ing policies, or hate-mongering toward other religions and others' views. It makes no sense for them to continue this course unless they simply want to continue to alienate themselves and incur public and legal wrath and call it a satanic attack.
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Does WTS want the goverments to turn on them?
by jeremiah18:5-10 inconsidering that the wts has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "god's people", does wts want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?.
any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together.
any victories are viewed as gods blessing.. it seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.
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jeremiah18:5-10
It seems if they were at all interested in self-preservation and growing the ranks, they would effort to be more politically correct. I think they will only get more obstinate, more resistant, and more radical in their views and actions. As a real, genuine cult, at some point doomsday has to come, whether authentic or manufactured. Considering I have a significant numbers of family still in, this scares me. I have no hope of freeing them.
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Does WTS want the goverments to turn on them?
by jeremiah18:5-10 inconsidering that the wts has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "god's people", does wts want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?.
any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together.
any victories are viewed as gods blessing.. it seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Considering that the WTS has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "God's people", does WTS want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?
This would seem to be a win-win for them. Any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together. Any victories are viewed as Gods blessing.
It seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.
Thoughts?
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Outsourcing of printing?
by Lynnie ini heard through the grapevine this weekend that my second cousin and her husband made a trip to india to investigate possible outsourcing of printed docs for the wtbts.
he is a uber bethelite in the purchasing dept and my cousin is a good bethelite wife.
they were living in brooklyn but have been moved up to wallkill in the last few months.
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jeremiah18:5-10
It wouldn't surprise me if they started emailing pdf's of study articles, ltboe and invitations, etc to the coboe with instructions to print as needed. They could just put all else on their website and require publishers to print for themselves as needed and to simply direct interested people to the website for further info. Thus they would totally eliminate any need for printing facilities. At the same time they could and would continue to ask for and require donations for technology upgrades artwork etc. They shhep are so programmed to donate they probably would never recognize the difference and would just keep on giving.
Oops guess I should've read all posts above before posting. Sorry for the repeat. Punk hit my same thought.
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JW Bombshell Seeds
by snare&racket inthough it is true that one conversation or one jw bombshell will unlikely rock a member from the cult, we are all here as a result of leaving or realising the lies we were fed, doubtless all the bombshells we heard or considered contributed to us leaving.. there seems to be a lot of apathy here at the moment that facts and information are not enough to convince a jw of the lies in watchtower.. this is not true.
even if one missile does not bring down the wall, it contributes to its fall.. information empowers people, it is the most valuble asset in the war on cults.
it may not sink the boat immediatly, but we know it springs leaks.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Many years ago in the mid-90's as a regular pioneer and ms, I studied with a college student that was majoring in philosophy and a minor in the world's religions (or something like that). His thesis was on the history of the beliefs of jws. I foolishly thought that even if not sincere in his efforts, I could help him see the "truth". Only after leaving have I come to appreciate the impact this guy had on me and teaching me critical thinking skills. One occasion in particular stands out as an epiphany. I had the P.O's son, a regular pioneer also, on the study with me. This brother read a quote regarding the trinity, a major topic of our discussions, directly from the reasoning book as if it were the final authority. I remember himm saying, "see it says it right there, what else do you need?". I was so embarrassed by that, because by that time I realized that this student wouldn't just accept what WT said as fact, something all of us did accept. I was very uncomfortable and so embarrassed as I watched the student just smile and shake his head. I look back on that day now as the first crack in the facade. It changed my entire approach to my ministry and my talks. I never again relied on statements from WT as proof. It seriously affected my confidence in teaching and I never felt very comfortable dealing with topics like the trinity again.
Its funny how lost I felt as the student refused to study from a publication. We had to just use the bible. I'm so thankful now for the things he taught me, that frankly I hardly realized and certainly didn't appreciate at the time. I was 100% defeated by him.
So planting seeds of doubt are effective but may take time to mature. It took me 20 years.
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But, they're so HAPPY!
by stillin inyou can't deny it.
smiling and brimming with good cheer.
is it sort of like the person who buys a lemon of a car and won't admit it?
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jeremiah18:5-10
What's the saying? "Ignorance is bliss". That's JW's in a nutshell.
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Do you blame Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Jesus, etc. for the corruption of the borg?
by Fading Begins indo you hold god accountable for the corruption of the borg?
i've noticed there seems to be a bitterness, by some, that includes "god" in the equation, when discussing the borg and their policies, the governing body, elders actions, etc.
do the borg's transgressions originate with god, or does he feel the same disgust as we do?
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jeremiah18:5-10
Once believers become an organization, there's structure. Once there's structure, there's power and authority. Once there's power and authority in a human organization there's corruption. Christianity was set up to be a personal relationship between the believer and God thru Jesus as the one mediator with the help of holy spirit. It never was supposed to be an "organization" as such, God ended that arrangement with the Christ. Now he looks for individuals and evaluates individually. Each person has to take responsibility and action for themselves and each must possess faith for themself. Such faith is uniquely individual in nature while based on Gods Word and his son Jesus. That's the only necessary unifying factor. There's no need for a religious administration or organization. The only purpose served by such is to elevate oneself and to exert power and authority over its followers. Ray Franz expresses such in his book In Search of Christian Freedom. I take a similar position because it makes perfect sense for me, as I still accept the Bible as Gods Word and I still believe there is a God and I also believe in Jesus. To each his own in that regard.