Posts by BU2B

19

Why should God answer a prayer to get a job while atrocities happen everyday?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i had a conversation yesterday with my wife, who seems to think every good thing that happens to her just has to be jehovah, and every bad thing, she just knows is satan.

this irritates me to no end.

i told her yesterday that i have trouble praying to have relatively petty thing resolved in my life, meanwhile around the world, many people are raped mutilated, tortured, and killed everyday.

i have just watched a u-tube produced on the 1-6-2013 in canada of a paul hellyer who was a defence minister in canada who stated at some conference that he believes that there are at least 6 different alien 'races' making regular contact with the earth.

one group is referred to as the 'tall whites'.. he understands that two individuals (alien) are working with the us government swapping intelligence and so on.

he goes on to mention this knowledge of aliens is kept from the general population by the ususal super rich nasties the proposers of world government etc.. the interview is something to watch!

BU2B

Jude 77.

28

The two-tiered Christian system. WHY?!

by DATA-DOG in

the wtbts asserts that the great crowd of [ other sheep ] teaching arose as an answer to the confusion of the rank-and-file, correct?

what confusion?

does anyone know any specifics?

BU2B

DD, I believe this was because Russel originally did teach that only 144,000 was going to heaven. Once the Bible Students kept growing,and the end didnt come, and they werent raptured, they realized that all the new converts still joining could not be all going to heaven as there were too many of them to fit the number. Instead of admitting that the 144,000 is figurative, and not the number of all going to heaven, they(Rutherford) instead chose to change the doctrine to that the majority will live on the earth so therefore the two class system was born. They took unrelated scriptures, linking 144,000 with the little flock, and other sheep with great crowd, with no scriptural basis. They used an eisigieical approach, to make scriptures fit their Ideas. Buisness as usual.

Russel did teach of the earth being populated, but this was because he didnt believe that everyone but his group would be destroyed, and didnt believe in narrow salvation. Rutherford introduced this concept. He also believed people who have died would all be resurected on earth and have a probation period to get their act together. The 144,000 would rule from heaven.

That is my understanding of the development of this absurd concept.

19

Why should God answer a prayer to get a job while atrocities happen everyday?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i had a conversation yesterday with my wife, who seems to think every good thing that happens to her just has to be jehovah, and every bad thing, she just knows is satan.

this irritates me to no end.

i told her yesterday that i have trouble praying to have relatively petty thing resolved in my life, meanwhile around the world, many people are raped mutilated, tortured, and killed everyday.

BU2B

I had a conversation yesterday with my wife, who seems to think every good thing that happens to her just has to be Jehovah, and every bad thing, she just KNOWS is Satan. This irritates me to no end. I told her yesterday that I have trouble praying to have relatively petty thing resolved in my life, meanwhile around the world, many people are raped mutilated, tortured, and killed everyday. Many of those people no doubt pray for it to stop but it does not. Why should God help me get a job, and meanwhile let others, including witnesses be mistreated in the worst ways. I said that when I do pray, it is about others not myself. She said by those standards why pray at all? Of course when bad things happen it is only "time and unforseen occurence". I said I am not trying to argue, Im just expressing myself. I dont even WANT GOd to help me get a Job, I would rather he help people who need it more! She always says I just KNOW God wouldnt let this that or the third happen to ME! And im thinking, where is the concern for all those that do go through suffering on an epic scale.

The indoctrinated mind is so amazing, like watching a train wreck kind of amazing. Any good must come from God, and all bad from satan... Why then do evil people get good jobs, are sucsessful etc? Why are christians tortured and killed all the time? Did God abandon them? DId God bless them too? I hate how anything that happens in life is attributed to supernatural sources. But hey whatever gets you through life huh?

30

Do you believe Jehovah enjoys watching people suffer and why would you want to worship him?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i have to admit i never really thought about this question until one of my classmates challenged me with this very question.

she made an excellant point and i have to admit i am asking myself the same question does jehovah enjoy watching people suffer.

the case she brought up was the flood story.

BU2B

I struggle with this as well. I have been studying history. I read a book about the 100 worst atrocities in history, things beyond the widely known Nazi era. It was not unique. The more you study history you start to realize it was ond big sadistic disease filled bloodbath. The things that have been done to people, unspeakable. If you take the most depraved violent thought you can think of anyone doing to another person, it has all been done and more! This is not unique!It has been going on, is now, and will in the future. Many hundreds of millions have been slaughtered in the most brutal ways imaginable, all while Je-hovah looks on.

The Dubs say that Jehovah is not doing these things, but allows them to happen. To me this is just as bad. If I let my 3 year old daughter be babysat by a know pedophile, let her play in traffic, play by an inground swimming pool without permission, and just watch the results, what kind of father would I be? The worst kind. True I didnt DO anything to her, but society in general views non action, when you have the power to stop something to be reprehensible.

What king of father wouldnt warn Adam and Eve about Satan? Why did he put cherubs near the tree of life? Preventing them from living forever? What kind of father would confuse the languages of men because he said, "nothing they do is impossible if we let them be united and continue?" Why did he drown his children, one of the most terrifying deaths? Why not just put them to sleep like we do our sick pets? What kind of father just lets endless atrocites happen, over and over again, and not step in just because he was challenged? If I got challenged that my daughter didnt really love me and she only stays with me because I give her good food to eat and fun toys, would I let the challenger abuse her to the limit, just to see if she still loves me after? Only an egotistical sadistic human father would do this, but this is what the account of JOB entails. It always disturbed me greatly when when mentally in. I always thought it was selfish. Is that all God thinks of us? It is always said that Job gained more after. I ask what about the lives of all the servants, and his kids? Are they expendable?

What about Jepthahs daughter? It dosent say anywhere in the Bible that she served at the temple like the WT teaches, but some feel that she was a human sacrifice. I dont know, its possible. I ALWAYS struggled with Joshuas campaighn through caanan, slaughtering the population. Actually, that was one of the top 100 atrocites of the book I read. They estimated millions were killed, if the account is accurate. Imagine, the streets must have been RIVERS of blood!!! Cutting open pregnant women, etc. Tell me how did they tell a virgin to keep from a non virgin? I shudder to think.... But these were holy men... I always struggled with loving the God JWs worship and idolize as potrayed in the OT.\

On the other hand, I love the teachings of Jesus, and support what he taught.. I dont know.. My only thing that keeps me with any belief is the thought that maybe heaven is soooo great and wonderful, that any atrocity suffered here on earth will pale in comparison to how it is there, maybe even make it seem insignificant by comparison. But I still dont like the comparison to a human father because no human father would let their child suffer the way mankind has if he could help it FOR ANY REASON. I am still figuring out who I really am and what I really believe at this point..

88

Former Long Time Elder, New Member

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

i have served 20 years as an elder, 5 years as an ms. was on the district committee in 2010, held various positions on the district , circuit, and rbc level.

probably been on more than 100 judicial committees and even an appeals committee.

was the coordinator in our congregation and deleted because adult child was df ( i kicked him out at the time of his wrongdoing, but that wasn't enough for thr brothers).

BU2B

Welcome to the forum JJ! It encourages me soo much to see that so many are awakening, it seems at a more and more rapid pace! Take your time, be alone, go somewhere quiet and beautiful, just breathe and really think things through honestly and as clearly as you can and then go from there.

Also, Reading Ray Franz Books Crisis of Conscience, and even better In Search of Christian Freedom will be comforting to you and help you FULLY understand just how UNChristian this Org really is, and how they are able to control Adults like little children.

Welcome, and look forward to your posts- BU2B

56

GB (Splane) says JW parent should "force" their children

by Gayle in

to go in "service," "baptism," etc.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqmosgj710

BU2B

So many on the GB just look and sound so WEIRD!! The things they say and the way they say it should be a real wake up call to a JW with 2 brain cells! THESE ARE THE GUYS RUNNING THE SHOW!! They barely crack open a bible in any of their talks! Its all control control control and guilt guilt guilt! Splane and Lett seem the craziest, Morris seems like he has leftover mental issues from the war. I relly hope Lett comes to our A$$embly, maybe my wife will see just how CRAZY the men she trusts are.

3

A World without Prejudice. When?

by zound in

just thought i'd put a few choice cuts from this new watchtower article here:.

what is prejudice?.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130601/prejudice-global-problem/ .

BU2B

What about predjudice, and discrimination against former witnesses? Of course their religious persecution of dissinters dosent count

221

What JW catch phrase DRIVES YOU NUTS!!!!

by megaflower in

jw
friends

"we should be mindful".

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

BU2B

Bring a MODEST bathing suit and towel to baptism (really means wear pants and about 5 layers of t shirts)

20

Out of the mental cell stuck in the physical prison......no-win situation

by Kensho in

jdubs are fond of quoting peter "where are we to go lord"... well the answer for me has been this forum for last couple of years which is really sad because i should be able to talk to my lifelong friends instead of faceless avatars.

( don't get me wrong this place has helped me through some really rough times mentally kudos to terry, cedars,slimboyfat, blondie,jwfacts and many others.).

the shun gun has prevented me from making the move completely out of this cult i have given my life to.

BU2B

Hello Kensho, I feel your pain. I am currently in just about the exact situation you are in, and I know the feeling. No real friends, no one to talk to who understands, cant even share whats most important with your own wife! The one you are supposed to be the closest with, hard to fade too much or make friends outside the WT without arousing the ire of the wife, and suspicion. There is no easy way out. We are going to feel pain, but at a certain point, the pain of ripping off the bandage so to speak will not be as painful in the long run, as a lifetime of stifling who you really are. The JWs are wrong, that we know. But It breaks my heart to know the pain my devout parents will feel when they will be forced to disown me and they feel I am falling prey to satan. Of course I know they are decieved, and I no longer am, but that dosent dull the coming pain of a family ripped apart. My wife may even want to stay with me, but how will she deal with having a DF or inactive husband? Can I bear to see her so miserable? Having her husband the target of gossip? Will that be any type of environment my daughter should be brought up in? More and more I feel the options are to either wake her up, or its all over.

For now I am doing what you are now, going through the motions, but I know I cant do this much longer. The sad reality is there will be pain for us one way or another: A long slow debilitating pain of pretending to be something we are not, biting our tounge all the time etc, or the pain of just walking away and starting a new chapter in our lives, possibly losing all we know, but probably gaining unconditional, genuine people in the future.

I have been starting to run as well, it helps me physically and mentally, and has helped me bear up. Its nice to know that here we have people who understand.

Please please PM me anytime you want and then I can give you my email adress if you want.

This is some dilemma to be in but we WILL make it through, we have no choice. Everyone will reach their breaking point with the JW life sooner or later.