Posts by RipVanWinkle

14

"False Brothers and JW's on this Board"

by Erich in

jw
friends

sorry, folks, i must do it... .

yesterday, i got hurt in my heart, and my stomach-ulcus' almost exploded, when i read as follows: .

yk: what type of "falsely posing jw's on this board" did you mean ??

RipVanWinkle

Erich,

The Indians are famous for the statement: I will judge no man until I have walked in his mocassins for 2 miles.

Unfortunately people who promote themselves as kings and judges have so little experience. They may be able to rattle off scripture verbatim, but they do not understand the message of the Christ which was one of love, compassion and understanding.

There is nothing in the human so fragile as the mental/emotional aspect. I have had family members who have suffered depression and emotional disturbances due to feeling inadequate and needing to try harder HARDER,HARDER! Until they burn out and collapse under the pressure only to be told that they must be spiritually inadequate. What cruel and heartless judges!

I have family who have attempted suicide and still suffer from the effects of the overdose. Just recently a friend succeeded in suicide. The results of a JC. There are too many people with some sort of mental/emotional disturbances brought on by stress etc.
Of course we know the stigma attached to depression, panic attacks, borderline personality, manic depression, PTS etc. etc. So if you take meds - just don't tell or the spy glass will get you.

I agree with your statement about the cleaning. As long as wrongs can be swept under the carpet there will be no change. People who have power to change are unwilling. The 'willing' are without power.
Forums such as this have exposed the need to change. Confronting the problems is a beginning. But I fear we have a long way to go. Change will not come by 'human power'. Although humans may be used to effect change. I feel a certain sadness for people like You Know. Because they come on as a super self righteous judge and lose the power they may have to heal others. One of the last posts that You Know made on the old H2O he sorted out his feelings and surprisingly deep down in speaks a different speech. On the regular board he comes out as a devil's advocate. If/when I dig out his old posting I will post it. It was his best post. Just not sure whether he is Jekyll or Hyde.

RVW

13

Poll: Successful Reactivations by Elders?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

hi all,.

all my experience is that once a jw begins to question the organization, a irreversible progression sets in that leads inexorably to a total disaffection with the organization that no amount of ``shepherding'' can change.. so my question to you all is: can we document one single case in which a disgruntled ex-jw was successfully reactivated/restored to loyal dubdom?

(my impression is that the efficacy of elders' ``shepherding calls'' is a myth, a total waste of time).

RipVanWinkle

Based on my experiences, the vast majority of the elders simply don't know how to shepherd. Most simply fill a slot in the machinery. Some are on a glory trip and bask in being platform elders. They do not get sufficient training to shepherd and do not know the flock well enough to care. Do they know the names of the children and what they are doing in school etc? Do they even talk to them with meaningful conversation? Are they aware of the feelings of the infirm or do they even acknowledge them? Does each elder know where all the pubs live? When they make shepherding calls (and a few do) do they make it a point to bring their whole library to impress the sheep how much they know? After all each home does have its' own Bibles. If the elder does not personally know the appearance of the flock during good times, if a pub. has a problem he/she does not want to air the problem to a complete stranger - since an elder you do not know is really a stranger. THAT is not the time to get to know the sheep.

Are they prancing around the KH with a clip board looking important or do they have time to greet and converse with those attending?

I don't believe that most of the elders actually care for the flock. As long as they maintain status quo that keeps them in the light they are content. Not to say that there aren't some good ones but they are sparse.

Kids in their early teens may be able to have babies but that doesn't mean they can care for them responsibly. They need time (age) and experience and desire to be good parents. In some ways this is true of people who become elders before their time. However, it is the system that has been developed that is responsible for this inadequacy. Years ago we would get the CO who was the eyes and ears for the society and we would see changes and improvments in the congo. Each publisher was given the opportunity to express his/her grievances and be heard and all parties would benefit positively from mature counsel. Today the CO says he's not here to help with problems - this is the job of the elders. So the opportunity to see wrongs righted or matters cleared up is gone. It used to be the CO would come through and stay at any humble home that would accomodate him. He would carry a couple of luggages, had an older vehicle but he was full of wisdom and had a lot of lifes experience to share. He would eat what we ate and never make us feel inferior if we had a lack. We anticipated the visit and were built up to face lifes' problems.

Today some come through with the finest of everything. Expect the best of everything and when they leave we are let down because there was no spiritual buildup. They ( as examples) are seldom concerned about reactivating publishers. The vists are often on some sister whose husband has died or some such thing. For people who are having problems or are struggling with their faith, the PO makes sure such ones are not called on.

So the short of it is that - I don't think the majority have learned to care. I really hate to see those words on paper, but that's what I've observed.

RVW

16

The Govering Body....victims?

by Preston in

jw
friends

the governing body... victims of the misinformation that has gone back many, many years?

they might not be as entirely evil as many of you have pointed out.

even hitler believed the misinformation that he so strongly promoted, an anti-semitism that stretched back centuries.

RipVanWinkle

Preston,

At one time I would have been inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. To plead imperfection for those who are in position of responsibility when they failed to measure up to the standard. I became a publisher in the early 40's when there was a certain cohesiveness and caring. However, over the years I have seen/experienced things that have left a permanent searing on very being.

Some years ago a dear friend had been through real emotional trauma and was being put through the wringer by a committee. He was being treated by a psychiatrist and on a hefty dose of medication. His suffering made no difference on this committee who treated him horribly. (after all a spiritual person should not see a psychiatrist.) I tried to help - including addressing a letter to the GB to try to explain the circumstances which I felt had been grossly blown out of proportion. I fully expected that at least someone would be unbiased enough to fully examine the whole picture. Years have passed. I am still waiting. Do they care? The answer is apparent.

Yet I have seen people who have position (or those who use their position to cover for friends and family) who lie, steal, cheat, and commit immorality who get not even a slap on their fingers. I have seen justice die and get buried.

I take comfort in knowing that each must render an account and that every day is judgment day. I have found peace in my relationship with Jehovah and have cut out the power that I once gave to the middle men. Respect begets respect and those who are to take the lead should be those to set the pattern for it. I am grateful for the many things I have learned and use to make my life meaningful. But I am convinced that it is impossible to please humans and Jehovah too.

RVW

62

How Long A JW ( Baptised )?

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i frequently read on this board that somebody has 'been a jw for over 25 years' and then learn that they are in fact 25 years and three days old.. i am very easily confused, in fact i actually got inside a car of similar color to my own recently and spent at least five minutes with a furrowed brow trying to force my car key into its ignition, fortunately, i realised my error before i was arrested.

so, just to humor me, can you all post how long you were/are baptised jw's?.

thank you -- hs.

RipVanWinkle

Been a publisher on record for 60 years. Carried the phonograph, testimony card, and broke into the 3 and 5 scripture "sermons". Wore those clumsy placards to announce the assembly talks. Those placards were something else.

Found a lot of joy in sharing good wholesome Bible teachings. I'm totally disappointed in some of the changes that have developed since the early 70's. Of course I have some "human" ideas for why those changes came. Primarily the fear that humans were solely responsible for keeping the "sheep in the pen".

I've learned to appreciate that it's just between me and God and I also believe that He is just, kind, loving, caring and the giver of peace to all who seek him.

I've also learned that I don't have to tell everything I know. And I've learned not to trust humans since they tend to betray trust. So with 2 ears and 1 mouth I listen more and have learned to use the "grey matter" that God gave me to use.

RVW

34

Hi, new to the board!

by SYN in

jw
friends

i hope my user name doesn't offend anyone - it actually stands for the [syn] command your computer uses to connect to other computers on the web, not what you were thinking!.

is this board mainly for jw or ex-jw people?

curious.... also...i have heard the phrase 'dub' used to describe jw people.

RipVanWinkle

Hi Syn,

I am also a JW. Come here to browse at times. Post seldom. Some think I'm still groggy and half asleep like the proverbial RipVanWinkle> I feel that I've seen a lot of changes in the past 50-60 years. Been in that long.

Lots of things I see that I don't like in my congo.. But I like the Bible and I feel that what I've learned from the "good Book" has helped me in my outlook immensely. In the final analysis, I'm not responsible for other peoples' actions. It's mainly between me and Jehovah. As far as people go, I've been devastated by many. It has put me down at times, but I'm not out. Just getting a different perspective of my relationships.

I feel that if I see a person down I want to help. I want to cheer somebody's day. I don't want to throw a wet blanket on anybody and I don't feel I have any right to try to criticize someone else for their choices. I haven't walked in their shoes and don't know where the holes, stones, nails etc. are or how they are feeling.

I do know that what I've lived through has helped me to have more
empathy toward others and I try to show it in my inter-relationship.

"Christianity" shouldn't be just a word. It should be a way of life.

Kind regards.

RVW

15

Ruminations on the Whole WTBTS Mess. Part 1.

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

hi, folks,.

hmmm.

ive bitten myself off a pretty good chunk here, so bear with me as i try to figure out where to start.. two things id better say up front, though: none of this is meant to be in any way, a devaluing of the phenomenal work thats been done by anyone here on the board.

RipVanWinkle

Tom,

I think the brother's name who heads up the Societies Liason committee is Major Spry. He has traveled the world to set up committees and provide information. He himself had a close scrape with death due to a lack of blood while in a south american country and he was nursed back to be able to come back to the states while still on a stretcher. His experience is found in one of the magazines about 8 years ago. He is very knowledgeable and helpful.

Rather interesting that you folks are/were the recipients of such "attention". Wouldn't we all like kindly people out there to offer us an assist.

RVW

24

Letter to Garrett

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

36929 row river road.

cottage grove, oregon 97424. .

ernie garrett, elder.

RipVanWinkle

Dear Tom,

I read your letter thoroughly. It is sometimes therapy to put down your thoughts on paper to validate your own beliefs and feelings. It can benefit yourself and all of us who read you. It appears that at least some of your elders have made an effort to reach out to you in some way. Unfortunately that is not true with very many.

I am convinced that the reason is partly because of incompetence. The "Peter Principle" is alive and well. Most (not all) but most are simply puppets on a string waiting for someone higher up pull their string to a certain action.

For whatever the reason the past 20-25 years have seen a squelching of freedom to think, reason and question without being put under the magnifying glass to discover sometimes superficial faults that give a reason to disfellowship those for whose questions there are no answers. And there are a lot of areas that we would do well to say "I just don't know."

I am inclined to believe that after the 1975 episode - rather than trusting in Jehovah to lead His people there was the feeling that it was humans who were "going to build the house". There were walls put up to confine the members. Rather He says in Psalms 127:1 "unless Jehovah himself builds the house, it is to no avail that its builders have worked hard on it. Unless Jehovah himself guards the city It is to no avail that the guard has kept awake." He uses humans, but doesn't NEED them.

I can remember back in 1981 or so when C.W. Barber pleaded with the audience at a D.O. as to whether the assembly there had confidence in the workings of the GB. He mentioned the dissent in Bethel and pleaded for support. Since that time it seemed that people who gave comments at the meetings in their own words or elaborated on the data were being given a critical eye. Don't want any "free thinkers" one brother said. He wanted the answers read like a parrot out of the publication or the comments were branded "off the wall".

It is a real pleasure to see that your faith in Jehovah and His principles remain strong and you haven't forgotten the things that are important in your relationship with Him. I agree with your observation of the need to not deny your conscience. Whatever will be is in the hands of the Creator who will bring justice at his appointed time to all humans - dead or alive.

Keep your chin up - on a friendly level, and may God's blessing prove to be with you in your determination continue to search for truth and justice. Corrections will come to all of us because of our imperfections. It is always easier to acceptthem if they come in the spirit of mildness and love.

RVW

29

Goodbye

by troubled in

jw
friends

after much soul searching, i've decided to abandon this board.

i have learned a great deal, and what i've read has expanded my view.

so as i leave, i'll not be sorry for the time i spent here.

RipVanWinkle

Troubled,

Thanks for your short visit. I usually just read the board and have made more comments in the past week than in months.

I have felt that the board has helped me to be more compassionate. I have experienced some excruitating pain within the Org. I am working through it and feel that my relationship with Jehovah is stronger. It has also made me less judgmental of others. I have seen enough to know that there has been a lot of malpractice among people who are not well enough trained to take on the giant task of helping the congregation with the magnitude of problems that are staggering. Yet at the same time they are being put up as "capable" to help with all manner of problems.

I believe that eventually some of this will be realized and changes will come. Perhaps better training an an awareness of their limitations. In the meantime, I feel I am a better person for the pain I've suffered. I went thru denial, anger, resignment and now am a different person, but a stronger one. I can reach out to others who are hurting in the congregation and help in a way that only someone who has been there can do. I've not "arrived" just still on the journey.

Thank you for your post.

RVW

36

Watchtower Exploitation Begins!

by metatron in

jw
friends

over the weekend, various publishers/congregations were.

instructed to go out in service for a "special work".. some congregations received letters from circuit overseers.

emphasizing immediate use of old awake magazines with articles.

RipVanWinkle

Nicodemus

Thanks for your reply. It is quite clear that those of us who are Jehovah's witnesses are greatly outnumbered on this board. My parents left their belief system about 8 decades ago and chose because of their Bible study to leave behind teachings such as the trinity, infant baptism, limbo, purgatory, hellfire, holy crusades, infallibality of the Pope ( though they have made costly mistakes during the centuries with holy wars etc) ,celibacy etc.

I watched the mass yesterday at St. Patrick's cathedral in NYC. Thousands came to show respect. Some believed the rituals and there were others who had a completely different view yet showed respect for those there, the dead, the suffering and the missing, as well as the service. I wonder how many on this board would have had the same response if it was a JW service?

I have family who are still in that belief system but I grant them and those like them the dignity to believe their choice without maligning them - though they are not my beliefs. Unfortunately some on this board can not do this.

It is clear that as humans we try to put everything into neat little categories about life and the future. We have no concept of what our compassionate God sees. He knows our genes, chromosomes, environment, education, and all that makes us tick. Even what we may become if we had a different set of circumstances. He knows about the mentally sick ones and when it comes time for judgment by Him he knows to do what is right - and will do it!.

In the Bible it often speaks of Jesus coming "soon" or the end coming "soon". If those people would have not been motivated to study the Word and apply it in their lives they would have lost out on a better quality of life even in their time. How soon is "soon" to a fruit fly? to a turtle? to man? to God. I feel that in many ways I benefit from trying to apply the Bible in my life. Whether Armageddon comes "soon" in my lifetime or not is not my concern. God never asked me for my input. Who is the clay pot to contend with the potter?

Peace to you Nicodemus!!

RVW

36

Watchtower Exploitation Begins!

by metatron in

jw
friends

over the weekend, various publishers/congregations were.

instructed to go out in service for a "special work".. some congregations received letters from circuit overseers.

emphasizing immediate use of old awake magazines with articles.

RipVanWinkle

Hey Guys!

Did you watch the service at St. Patricks Cathedral in NYC on Sunday?I did. In my community people went in droves to church to hear some words about comfort from the Bible. I do not condemn them. It shows that there is a spiritual side to all people. What they choose to believe is their decision. I do not go to them and say - "what a horrible religion you have. You believe that most people who don't believe what you do will burn for ever and ever and ever. That is disgusting. What kind of fiends are you?" I do not tell the Muslim that your Taliban should be wiped out and all you who follow them.

When I see the Muslim I don't attack his religion even though it was those adherents who perpetrated such horrible things as the attack on the WTC. His Koran does not encourage this kind of action. What we see are masses who are driven by hate who will inflict mental and emotional turmoil not to mention death and they are happy about it.

What are YOU saying to someone who is hurting? Tell them "don't worry we're going to kill them all and get even?" There are all kinds of things that can be done at a time of crisis. Some needed to supply booties for the dogs. Eyewash for their eyes and ears. Some supplied help in probably thousands of ways. Those cranes - donated. The big night lights donated. Food, health care, razor blades etc. Time and money.

It reminds me of the Apostle who said that because the eye is not the hand it cannot say itis not part of the body. All organs work together for the benefit of the person. I think that many peoples have come together to try to do what they can - the widow's mite.

So whatever we feel motivated in our hearts to do within our ability, if it is out of love and without compulsion should be welcomed and appreciated. I have shared Bible thoughts - things that I have found comfort in. So many people are just happy to take out their Bibles and retrieve God's thoughts. I had a few people even put markers in their bibles to read them again and share with family. Many people didn't make it to church. Some are not members, some sick and in the hospitals. Some are of non christian religion. It gives me an opportunity to ask what is their source of comfort during such a time and listen and perhaps they want to exchange thoughts. Most people are quite open, and willing to talk.

Unfortunately there are some on this board that can see nothing but poison among Jehovah's witnesses. Someone told me that with my screen name of RipVanWinkle it was appropriate since I still must be asleep.

I am not asleep, but I will not allow someone to take from me something (though imperfect) without offering me something better in exchange. I would like to see a return to the pattern set out by Jesus, whether it will come or not is not in my control. But irregardless, my faith is between me and Jehovah. I answer for the decisions I must make with my trained conscience. So does everyone else on this board .

Can't we just all get along instead of acting like cats and dogs?

RVW