Posts by RunningMan

42

Disfellowship?????????????????????

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

today's study topic included disfellowship.

i'm a little confused i was told that the only way you can be disfellowshipped was if you did something you knew went agains jehovah and would not repent for it.

but the only person you can repent to is jehovah......... then i was told that the elders can however "keep the flock pure" b/c if jehovah is not happy with the congregation he can take his holy spirit away.

RunningMan

TattooGirl:

This is a little off the topic, but since you are interested in asking
questions, would you like to catch your study conductor in a lie?
Then ask them this: "Do you need to be a Jehovah's Witness in
order to survive Armageddon?"

They will likely answer "No - only God can make this decision."

This is an outright lie. I have provided references at the end of this
post to prove my point.

Have fun!

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant
and the 'great crowd', as a united organization under the
protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any scriptural
hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system
dominated by Satan the Devil." (WT 09/01/89 p 19)

"You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will,
in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life."
(You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, 1982, p256)

"Who will live through Armageddon? Only those who obey
the bible command to seek Jehovah... How does one seek
Jehovah and seek righteousness? By coming into the
'one flock' of the right shepherd." (From Paradise Lost
to Paradise Regained, p 58)

42

Disfellowship?????????????????????

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

today's study topic included disfellowship.

i'm a little confused i was told that the only way you can be disfellowshipped was if you did something you knew went agains jehovah and would not repent for it.

but the only person you can repent to is jehovah......... then i was told that the elders can however "keep the flock pure" b/c if jehovah is not happy with the congregation he can take his holy spirit away.

RunningMan

When can the elders disfellowship you?

Technically, any time they want. The theory is that there is no sin
for which you are automatically disfellowshipped. It is your unrepentant
attitude which gets you booted.

In practice, though, there are several things which constitute
automatic disfellowshipment. This includes, but is not limited to,
joining the military, accepting blood, etc.

The actual items listed in the Bible, such as fornication, can usually
be repented over, and disfellowshipping avoided.

The worst thing that you can do is to disagree with the "Faithful
and Discreet Slave". This makes you an apostate, and even worse,
and "evil slave".

So, in a nutshell, the elders can do whatever the hell they want for
just about any reason that they want. But if you remain submissive
and agreeable, and stay out of their way, they will not call out the
dogs.

13

New Rumor............"Apostate Cruise"

by open_mind in

jw
friends

i ran into a jw from my local congregation last night.

he was, to my surprise, very polite to me.

he was curious as to why i haven't been attending the meetings lately.

RunningMan

In the Sept 1/84 Watchtower, there is an article entitled
"Would You Spread a Rumor?"

This is pretty much the definitive article on rumors. It is
here that the Society denied that there were any hidden
pictures in their literature. It was all a rumor.

14

New Survey? (subject:death)

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

what would you like to happen to you when you die?.

(a) live forever on paradise earth.. (b) be an angel in heaven.. (c) be a demon in hell.. (d) be re-born as another person.

(without memories of former life).

RunningMan

Although I firmly believe that when I die, I will simply
cease to exist, I think that my preferance would
be to live forever in paradise on earth. Maybe it's just
my upbringing, but I think the JW's have the best
fantasy - although I suspect their version of paradise
is considerably different from mine.

4

Song Grammar

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

i have a running joke with my son (age 14) regarding.

the grammer that appears in our kingdom songs.

know, all the usage of e'er, n'er, pray'r, pow'r, etc.. just imagine what it would be like if people talked like.

RunningMan

I have a running joke with my son (age 14) regarding
the grammer that appears in our Kingdom Songs. You
know, all the usage of e'er, n'er, pray'r, pow'r, etc.
Just imagine what it would be like if people talked like
that in real life.

Well, at our DC a couple of weeks ago, we encountered
the song "Forward you Witnesses", that contains the line
"Satan against them has vaunted". Neither of us knew
what it meant, so I looked it up today. It means "boasted".

Is that gramatically correct? How can you boast against
someone? I think somebody had a little trouble finding a
rhyme for "undaunted".

18

Adam & Eve (a story full of questions)

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

adam and eve.

most people are probably familiar with the story of adam and eve in the garden of eden.

also, most people consider it to be just a story.

RunningMan

I loved your analysis.

In addition, I think that the story of Adam, Eve, and
original sin is totally out of proportion.

Adam and Eve eat a piece of fruit. This is a crime
roughly on par with a parking ticket. Of course, the
only reasonable response to this infraction is for all
humans (around 25 Billion) to die, some of them under
hideous and cruel conditions, many of whom have never
even heard the story. Even children and the mentally
impaired are murdered, all because of this piece of fruit.

The solution to the problem? Well, instead of just giving
God a bucket of apples to make up for the theft, he
determines that the only reasonable response is for
an innocent human to die. So, he allows his son to
be killed, but the carnage doesn't end even then. There
is an inexplicable 2,000 year delay while even more people
die.

Sheesh, God, get over it already. I'll mail you a bunch of
bananas or something. Why all the fuss?

44

Wrong date

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

hello i'm new to the whole jw study thing, but they said it fell in 607 but due to the advice of others here i looked it up.

i found in 3 encyclopedia's online that it fell in 586. i printed them out and am going to get more.

i'm going to show the lady i study with, i'm just curious what you think will happen, and if she will try to deny it.

RunningMan

The JW's got themselves into a bit of a bind over the 607 BC date.

607 is the starting point for the beginning of the gentile times. If
the date was adjusted to 586, then the gentile times would have
ended in 1935, which was a completely inconspicuous date.

Overall, the 607 thing is a central error in their doctrines. In fact,
the 1914 calculation is one of the only completely unique doctrines
that they have. If it is wrong, they have very little claim to
God's direction.

Stick to your guns on the date problem. You have them cold.

If you need some technical information to refute them, I have
a document that I saved a while back that is very useful.
Send me an e-mail if you are interested.

2

REX B13 - Globes, Balls, Spheres, Circles

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hey rexy boy: you claimed in your 'flat earth' post to alanf that jehovah states in the bible to the hebrews in six (6) places that the earth is a sphere.

so, i looked this up.

and to be sure i looked up 'sphere', 'globe', 'ball' and 'circle' and found only two references to 'circle.

RunningMan

I get so sick of JW's who try to claim that the Bible had
scientific foreknowledge.

Yes, in Job 26:10, the Bible does speak about "the circle
of the earth". However, technically, the earth is not a
circle, it is a sphere. It is apparent that the early Hebrews
considered the earth to be roughly pizza shaped - circular,
but flat.

JW's also seem to have very short attention spans, because
the very next verse, Job 26:11, speaks about "the pillars
of heaven". This is an erroneous assumption that was
common among ancient people.

The majority of what the Bible says about science is very
simplistic, and in many cases wrong (rabbits chewing cud, etc).

I would also like to make a point about translating. I thought
that God saw to it that accurate copies of his word were
available throughout history. Why is it necessary to dig
through ancient manuscripts of dead languages to determine
meanings? Can't God preserve his own book in tact?

13

can anyone answer?

by NinjaBen in

jw
friends

i know its a very popular question but wat is the real answer to "if god is so mighty can he make a rock so big even he cant lift it"

RunningMan

An even more distressing question is this:

"How can an ace be both one and eleven? What kind
of God would allow it?"

and

"If God is all powerful, why does he care if we
worship him?

- Courtesy of The Simpsons

21

WTS says 215 years - Bible says 430 - Which?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

215 years or 430 years?

the july 15th wt study some have been talking about (not sure of which issue of the wt is involved) was quoted as saying this, "when the israelites headed for freedom after spending 215 years in egypt, much of that time in slavery, a vast mixed company also went up with them.

(exodus 12:38) ".

RunningMan

You said: "The Bible's count of 430 years starts from the time that
God made a covenant with Abraham."

Hogwash. Read the Bible. Here is what it says: "The time that
the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty
years." - Exodus 12:40

Abraham did not dwell in Egypt. Any attempt to date this time
period from a starting point other than the Isrealite migration
to Egypt is simply wishful thinking.