Posts by JWTom

38

Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"

by AlainAlam in

sorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.

i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.

but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!

JWTom

AlainAlam JWTom, thanks for bringing this up. First time I hear about it. As far as I know, the oldest reference to pornography and disfellowshipping is the '06 QfR. What did the elders use to do before that? Were there any instructions? I tried to look up letters to the elders online, but I couldn't find anything relevant.

During the mid-1990s to mid-2000s there was not much in print as it was the new world of the Internet. A lot of guidance was by private communications with the branch and not sent out to BoE. Which of course led to lots of local BoE concluding that "this person is doing really bad things looking at porn, we should really discipline them severly". I remember one case where the BoE Judicial Committee decision was made on a porn case and when the CO showed up he decided it was more serious and wanted to change the decision/discipline (1999/2000 timeframe). This happened since there was not really any clear direction on how serious of a sin pornography is and thus the more puritanical BoE are going to ruin your life. A more liberal BoE will give you a slap on the hand - no consistency.

It is just one example where the organization wants to make many, many strict rules and regulations.....but then thinks nothing of changing the rules/regulations down the road leaving many people that have been disciplined as collateral damage in the process. This is one reason more and more RAF members simple do their own thing when it comes to drinking, sex, porn, flirting, work, etc......and just don't tell anyone in a leadership role in the org. since you cannot expect the BoE or larger organization to handle anything in a consistent way.....

Not exactly what you originally wrote about but your thoughts and this topic are really a theme of the org. changing things with no regard for how it has impacted lives.

38

Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"

by AlainAlam in

sorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.

i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.

but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!

JWTom

Another great example that is along these lines it the organizations response to viewing porn and especially Internet porn that has become easily accessible in the last 20 years or so.

When BoE first started handling cases where people were confessing to viewing porn the organization in many cases came down like a hammer and some (many?) were even disfellowshipped for this. Within a few shorts years the org. had decided...."whoa! there are way too many people viewing porn to be this strict, we need to dial back the severity of looking at porn". I was an E at the time and it was really eye opening to see how the direction was very severe at first...but then became much more relaxed. All the JWs that received more severe punishment were just collateral damage since the org. had no idea a strict/severe approach on porn would backfire on them.

17

How are they handling the memorial this year with the Coronavirus?

by Mandi in

jw
friends

it’s cognac.

couldn’t sign-in for some reason so i created a new account.

just was wondering what’s going on with the memorial this year cause my kids father wants to have them during that time.

JWTom

There was a "recommendation" that people have emblems even if no one in house is partaking. According to an elder I know well, they were to tell everyone that emblems not necessary and the elder said it was just a recommendation....I told him the problem with recommendations is that the 80 year old JWs think that means you must do it.

9

How to CYA (cover your ass) Watchtower style

by eyeuse2badub in

today’s watchtower article was the ultimate cya.

for friggin’ decades all we heard was that as armageddon gets nearer and nearer, the number of the ‘great crowd’ will increase and the number of the “little flock” will decrease!

in fact, it was one of the proofs that the end was near!.

JWTom

I am PIMO, but I have joked with friends and family (including a couple of elders that I know well) that are PIMI about what is the organization going to do when the number partaking in the 2020s gets above 144,000? Of course no one has an answer to that - other than this article that says many that are partake are likely NOT anointed....

20

COVID-19 another example showing local publishers/congregations are on their own?

by JWTom in

jw
friends

my area is a large city spread across two u.s. states and multiple different cities and counties.

the area of 2.5 million is covered by parts of 4-5 different circuits.

many of those attending meetings are at-risk individuals with health problems or age related risk.

JWTom

Slidin Fast

My original post was similar to your thoughts. I am simply observing what is happening locally. While the org. could take the cautious approach and shut things down....instead things are left up to each congregation which results in chaos since many of the local elders (many who are good people in a general sense) don't really know what to do. They simply revert to the mantra....must have meetings, must have meetings, must have meetings, etc.

Since so many have lost their jobs or have reduced income if you have your own business - I was wondering how long it would be before donations are brought up again. From the letters posted it seems like it only took about 2-3 weeks for that to be brought up after things tanked here in the U.S. Over the last 10 or more years my PIMI wife and I have talked at length about how "wrong" it seems to have orphans and widows donating money so that others can have health care, housing, spending money and in some cases international travel. As is said here many times.....follow the money.

22

You heard it here first. U.S. District conventions CANCELLED!

by nowwhat? in

prudent decision even if the pandemic is over you are going to have people that.

lost jobs can't afford to go.

not allowed any vacation time rest of year.

JWTom

It is entirely possible that COVID will drive the final nail into coffin on the three annual assembly/conventions. My PIMI dad lives in an area of the U.S. with lots of JWs that can barely afford food/clothing/shelter - much less an expensive trip for one-day or multi-day meetings. Some simply don't go or go to one that is closer but that is not the one they are assigned to. He and I have had many discussions over the last 3-5 years about why would the org. continue to have the assemblies when they could simply stream everything to the KH. This is especially true now that the assemblies have little or not content that is anything local to the area. Years ago there were elements of the assemblies that were locally engaging such as knowing people or being in the dramas, a lot of personal experiences/interview and other items that made the convention feel "local". The majority of that is gone now and with the added video content you have to ask - why continue to do these as a large group??? Even many PIMI believers have these same thoughts, as my Dad does.

20

COVID-19 another example showing local publishers/congregations are on their own?

by JWTom in

jw
friends

my area is a large city spread across two u.s. states and multiple different cities and counties.

the area of 2.5 million is covered by parts of 4-5 different circuits.

many of those attending meetings are at-risk individuals with health problems or age related risk.

JWTom

My area is a large city spread across two U.S. states and multiple different cities and counties. The area of 2.5 million is covered by parts of 4-5 different circuits. Many of those attending meetings are at-risk individuals with health problems or age related risk. Some congregations are 70% at risk individuals.

As a born-in JW this pandemic appears to be further evidence that more and more of the organization functions are simply being dumped on the appointed men and RAF. I believe many of the appointed men realize this but are powerless to do anything about it due to being trapped. The decision making being passed to each local congregation has created a patchwork of random approaches to meetings and service. There is no clear direction. There is every possible combination of scenarios from no meetings, service, etc. to full meetings, full service (no restrictions).

It seems the org. could provide some clear direction on a country level and say: We cannot meet until it is safe - no more in-person meetings until the authorities deem the threat to have passed. And to me this would give some remaining members confidence that there was a plan. The current approach of making all of the decisions based on what the local body thinks leads to a crazy disconnected and sometimes insanely ridiculous way of doing things. This pandemic makes me so appreciative that I am no longer an elder.

PS: I realize there are many other examples of the org. abandoning the local congregations and leaving it up to the local elders to make important decisions or to do all of the work of keeping things running smoothly. Feel free to post your favorite one! This pandemic just seems to be a glaring example that the GB and Bethel have little to offer beyond parroting what the government has already said - and then more or less saying - GOOD LUCK!

16

JW views on saving and retirement

by neat blue dog in

probably one of the most common causes of cognitive dissonance many jws face is the choice to plan for retirement.

if you're a good jw, then you should believe that the end will be coming soon, surely before you retire.

that's what i did when i was younger, blowing decades that could've been better spent because i believed the end was coming, so any planning was a waste of time.

JWTom

Good comments overall. This is a significant area where the vast majority of JWs destroy their life as an older person...sad to see the many, many cases where this is true.

Completely agree and my experience as well in interacting with others. I simply laugh in private at anyone that basically has no plan and is hoping for the best. There 100,000s of example where someone has had no plan and basically ends up dead due to having no resources to take care of themselves when a serious health issue arises. Also, many that are in their 70s still working like a dog due to not planning.

We are at the higher end of the financial spectrum and will routinely offer our thoughts or help if someone is looking at how to plan for the future with savings, investments, etc. For all of the others that have "hope as a strategy" we just shake our heads.....

7

Chat Sites to Meet Witnesses?

by JWTom in

jw
friends

i heard this site used to have a chat feature.

i go to chatstep.com and will meet a witness there sometimes.

does anyone know other chat sites that are good for meeting witnesses?

JWTom

Witness I talk to are alot more open and candid in anon chat. Wll talk about many things that would never talk about in person.

24

Adding insult to injury when the WT kicks out a congregation from their hall

by nowwhat? in

not only does the organization confiscate the hall the congregation owns.

but then the former congregants are told to continue to pay for utilities and they are still responsible for upkeep and maintenance.

so they still have to cut the grass etc.

JWTom

The KH real estate is worth a fortune in the US. Liquidating all those KHs was a reality that was coming, just a matter of time. The only thing that would have changed that would be a growing organization and there are many threads on here about the reality that most congregations are slowly declining in attendance. Any shrinking organization has to keep cutting.