The Greek word 'obey' used in Hebrews is different to the one used to "obey your parents".
Hebrews is not an unthinking, blind obedience like the other one is.
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Posts by Splash
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15Christians: Question about, "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you..."
by Zoos in -
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Flip-flops: Should we blindly obey?
by Splash injust reviewed the cd-rom to get the historical view on blind obedience.. suprisingly, the wt has had some flip-flopping ideas on this.. should we 'blindly obey'?no - w63 2/1 p. 73 par.
3 conduct "worthy of the good news".
and as we consider these commands of god, it is not just blind obedience that is required but, rather, seeking with 'our whole mind and heart' to understand and appreciate why god tells us to do this or that, or not to do a certain thing, so that we may serve him with understanding.
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Splash
Just reviewed the CD-ROM to get the historical view on blind obedience.
Suprisingly, the WT has had some flip-flopping ideas on this.SHOULD WE 'BLINDLY OBEY'?
NO - w63 2/1 p. 73 par. 3 Conduct "Worthy of the Good News"
And as we consider these commands of God, it is not just blind obedience that is required but, rather, seeking with 'our whole mind and heart' to understand and appreciate why God tells us to do this or that, or not to do a certain thing, so that we may serve him with understandingNO - g90 10/22 p. 25 Part 6—Blackshirts and Swastikas
By their very nature, all governments must exercise authority. But Fascist states are designed to exercise it to the utmost, demanding blind obedience. Viewing humans as little more than slaves of the State, Treitschke said: "It does not matter what you think, so long as you obey." Typically, Fascism replaced the cry, "Liberty, equality, fraternity," heard during the French Revolution, with the Italian slogan, "To believe, to obey, to fight."(Note: Is this similar to "Listen, Obey and be blessed!"?)
NO - jv (1993) chap. 29 p. 668 "Objects of Hatred by All the Nations"
All such religious leaders feared that their people might learn things that would free them from superstitious beliefs and a life of blind obedience.NO - w94 8/1 p. 14 par. 19 Jehovah Is Reasonable!
He never requires blind obedience of his creatures, but usually he provides sufficient information to guide them and puts the choice before themNO - w04 7/1 p. 9 par. 6 'Go and Make Disciples'
Clearly, Jesus did not require blind obedience. He gave the men a convincing reason why they should obey him.YES - w07 12/15 p. 19 par. 15 "Stand Firm and See the Salvation of Jehovah"
we must obey Jehovah no matter what he asks us to do. ... Today, it is so important that we follow the guidance that comes to us through "the faithful and discreet slave"! We have to listen very carefully to God's word behind us, saying: "'This is the way. Walk in it, you people,' in case you people should go to the right or in case you should go to the left." As we get nearer to the outbreak of the great tribulation, we may well receive some detailed instructions. Our safe journey through those troublesome days will depend on our keeping in step with other loyal servants of Jehovah.NO - g 2/2010 p. 20 From SS Officer to Servant of the True God
I also see clearly the vast difference between serving tyrannical regimes, such as Hitler's, and serving Jehovah. The former demand blind obedience, whereas Jehovah wants us to serve him out of love based on an accurate knowledge of his personality and purposes as revealed in the Bible.YES - w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today
All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.Splash
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Watchtower Legal Department targeting Facebook and Youtube users
by Londo111 infrom an email i received of a conversation had with people from patterson:.
it seems that the wts legal dept.
has been working with the fb [facebook] legal dept for about a year and also with youtube whoever they are, to enforce transparency.
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Splash
What if Simon was offered $1,000,000 for the members info and email addresses from this site !!
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CO's visit ends with a bombshell!!!
by nowwhat? inat the end of his final talk he said of the gb: they are telling the higher ups , "start getting ready we're not going to be around much longer!
" and we expect the angels to release the four winds any day now!
" my first thought was why are you building a corporate country club then?!
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AlphaMan It's only a matter of time, until an "arranged financial scandal" hits the Watchtower. A lot of money will go missing. The GB will deny any knowledge of what happened, but will be at the forefront to solicit more money from JW's.
From the way they are pressing for more and more money, maybe this has already happened.
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The Blatant SEXISM of Watchtower!
by Island Man infrom my yahoo answers question here: .
"the bible says of deborah: "now deborah, a prophetess, the wife of lappidoth, was judging israel at that time.
5 she used to sit under the palm tree of deborah between ramah and bethel in the hill country of ephraim; and the sons of israel came up to her for judgment.
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Splash
Although a little bit long, this extract from Matthew Henry's commentary is excellent...:
She was not herself fit to command an army in person, being a woman; but she nominated one that was fit, Barak of Naphtali.
Some struggles, we may suppose, that brave man had made towards the shaking off of the yoke, but could not effect it till he had his commission and instructions from Deborah. He could do nothing without her head, nor she without his hands; but both together made a complete deliverer, and effected a complete deliverance.
1. By God's direction, she orders Barak to raise an army, and engage Jabin's forces, that were under Sisera's command, Jdg_4:6, Jdg_4:7. Barak, it may be, had been meditating some great attempt against the common enemy; a spark of generous fire was glowing in his breast, and he would fain do something to the purpose for his people and for the cities of his God. But two things discouraged him:
(1.) He wanted a commission to levy forces; this therefore Deborah here gives him under the broad seal of heaven, which, as a prophetess, she had a warrant to affix to it: “Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded it?
[1.1.] She directs him what number of men to raise - 10,000; and let him not fear that these will be too few, when God hath said he will by them save Israel.
[1.2.] Whence he should raise them - only out of his own tribe, and that of Zebulun next adjoining. These two counties should furnish him with an army sufficient; he need not stay to go further.
And, [1.3.] She orders him where to make his rendezvous - at Mount Tabor, in his own neighbourhood.
(2.) When he had an army raised, he knew not how he should have an opportunity of engaging the enemy, who perhaps declined fighting, having heard that Israel, if they had but courage enough to make head against any enemy, seldom failed of success. “Well,” says Deborah, in the name of “God, I will draw unto thee Sisera and his army.”
She assured him that the matter should be determined by one pitched battle, and should not be long in the doing.
[2.1.] In mentioning the power of the enemy, Sisera, a celebrated general, bold and experienced, his chariots, his iron chariots, and his multitude of soldiers, she obliged Barak to fortify himself with the utmost degree of resolution; for the enemy he was to engage was a very formidable one.
But, [2.2.] In fixing the very place to which Sisera would draw his army, she gave him a sign, which might help to confirm his faith when he came to engage. When afterwards Barak should see the event falling out just as Deborah had foretold, he might thence infer that certainly in the rest she said she spoke under a divine direction.
[2.3.] She gave him an express promise of success I will (that is, God will, in whose name I speak) deliver them into thy hand; so that when he saw them drawn up against him, according to Deborah's word, he might be confident that, according to her word, he should soon see them fallen before him.
At Barak's request, she promises to go along with him to the field of battle. (1.) Barak insisted much upon the necessity of her presence, which would be to him better than a council of war (Jdg_4:8): “If thou wilt go with me to direct and advise me, and in every difficult case to let me know God's mind, then I will go with all my heart, and not fear the chariots of iron; otherwise not.” Some make this to be the language of a weak faith; he could not take her word unless he had her with him in pawn, as it were, for performance. It seems rather to arise from a conviction of the necessity of God's presence and continual direction, a pledge and earnest of which he would reckon Deborah's presence to be, and therefore begged thus earnestly for it. “If thou go not up with me, in token of God's going with me, carry me not up hence.” Nothing would be a greater satisfaction to him than to have the prophetess with him to animate the soldiers and to be consulted as an oracle upon all occasions.
Deborah promised to go with him, Jdg_4:9. No toil nor peril shall discourage her from doing the utmost that becomes her to do for the service of her country. She would not send him where she would not go herself. Deborah was the weaker vessel, yet had the stronger faith. But though she agrees to go with Barak, if he insists upon it, she gives him a hint proper enough to move a soldier not to insist upon it: The journey thou undertakest (so confident was she of the success that she called his engaging in war but the undertaking of a journey) shall not be for thy honour; not so much for thy honour as if thou hadst gone by thyself; for the Lord shall sell Sisera (now his turn comes to be sold as Israel was, Jdg_4:2, by way of reprisal) “into the hands of a woman;” that is, [1.] The world would ascribe the victory to the hand of Deborah: this he might himself foresee. [2.] God (to correct his weakness) would complete the victory by the hand of Jael, which would be some eclipse to his glory. He dares not fight unless he have Deborah with him, to direct him and pray for him. She therefore stood to her word with a masculine courage; this noble heroine arose and went with Barak.
To me, this presents a much more balanced, accurate and unbiased view of Deborah.
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The Blatant SEXISM of Watchtower!
by Island Man infrom my yahoo answers question here: .
"the bible says of deborah: "now deborah, a prophetess, the wife of lappidoth, was judging israel at that time.
5 she used to sit under the palm tree of deborah between ramah and bethel in the hill country of ephraim; and the sons of israel came up to her for judgment.
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Splash
So here's the full flip-flop list:
WAS DEBORAH A JUDGE?
YES - (Judges 4:4, 5) Now Deb′o·rah, a prophetess, the wife of Lap′pi·doth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under Deb′o·rah’s palm tree between Ra′mah and Beth′el in the mountainous region of E′phra·im; the Israelites would go up to her for judgment.
NO - w62 6/15 p. 367 par. 31 Foretelling Him to Whom All People’s Obedience Belongs
the Reubenites did not go to the support of Judge Barak and the prophetess Deborah.YES - w66 8/1 p. 474 Barak—Judge and Deliverer of Israel
Though judge and prophetess, Deborah kept her place, setting a fine example for all Christian women.NO - w73 12/15 p. 755 par. 4 Why Exult in Spite of Personal Hardships?
as in the days of Judge Barak and the prophetess Deborah.YES - w78 2/1 p. 14 Success Only by Reliance on Jehovah
Thirteen judges are named, including Deborah, a prophetess and judge.NO - w80 11/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers
while Deborah can properly be described as a prophetess, it is only in a general sense that she was doing a measure of judging in Israel; she was not taking the full place of a male judge in Israel.NOT SURE - w86 6/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers
Aside from these 12, the Bible mentions Deborah, Eli, and Samuel in connection with judging. (Judges 4:4; 1 Samuel 4:16-18; 7:15, 16) However, Deborah is called first a prophetess, and she is linked with Judge Barak.NO - w91 8/15 p. 26 Jehovah—"A Manly Person of War"
through the prophetess Deborah, Jehovah summoned Judge Barak to assemble ten thousand warriors.Splash
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The Blatant SEXISM of Watchtower!
by Island Man infrom my yahoo answers question here: .
"the bible says of deborah: "now deborah, a prophetess, the wife of lappidoth, was judging israel at that time.
5 she used to sit under the palm tree of deborah between ramah and bethel in the hill country of ephraim; and the sons of israel came up to her for judgment.
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No, no, no!
The WT makes it very clear what Deborah's role was:*** w80 11/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
"while Deborah can properly be described as a prophetess, it is only in a general sense that she was doing a measure of judging in Israel; she was not taking the full place of a male judge in Israel."See, she only did a measure of judging, and that was only in a general sense. She knew her place!
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JW's and depression
by FeelingFree ini was wondering how many of you suffered badly with depression when you were in "the truth" and if you feel your depression was related to being part of the organisation?
are you better now you have left or still have issue's?
whatever your experience's i would be very intrested to know (if you feel you can talk about it.).
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You only need to read the forums on JWTalk to see the depression, anguish and upset of those still in.
People crying at the meetings, leaving early, abuse by elders, shunning while not df'd, looking to change congregations, etc. This, on a fiercely 'pro' JW site.
The mental abuse is endemic.
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New Awake! Dealing With Mental Illness
by runForever incontains a list of 9 practical steps except they forgot one: 10. do not become a jehovah's witness.. .
1. follow the treatment prescribed.
by qualified mental-health.
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For decades they have said it's ok to seek professional help, but it is always with the suggestion that you need to be suspicious of it.
*** w75 4/15 p. 256 Questions From Readers ***
So, while Jehovah’s witnesses do not categorically rule out the possibility of treatment by doctors specializing in emotional or mental problems, if a Witness does consult such he should carefully scrutinize any treatment recommended. He should never forget that keeping Jehovah’s laws works toward his mental health today and everlasting life in the future.The persistent tone here is that it is permitted "if you really must", but be careful (Why? Of what?) and really, being a good JW should be good enough.
It would have been so much kinder to say "Elders can give only give you so much support. For medical issues you should actively seek assistance from those qualified to do so, including doctors and mental health specialists."
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poll, why would you hide it your buisness/job
by sowhatnow inhow many people on here who were or are jws, owned or ran a buisness who would not willingly let people at the k hall know, maybe to avoid feeling like you had to give your fellow brothers and sisters a discount, or free help, or out of fear of being judged.
did you only help out the pioneers?
and not the poor ones?
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"Sorry, I only fix stuff for my family nowadays. I found I was spending all my free time doing jobs for others so I just had to stop".
"I'll put you on the list. I have a queue of people asking me and I already have a full schedule."
"Drop it round to mine at the weekend and I'll take a look. I'm afraid I had to start charging though, since I was just spending all my time fixing PC's for people."
"I'm taking a break from fixings PC's. It's all I ever seem to be asked to do."
"I'll have to examine the contents of your hard drive because some of these problems are caused by what we download from the internet".
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