The "figurative" heart

by Sour Grapes in

about 25 years ago i gave a talk about how when the bible talks about the heart that it is the literal heart and how the heart and the brain are connected by nerve tissue.

the watchtower even stated that some people who received a heart transplant would take on some of the personality of the donor.then all of a sudden the borg changed and said that when the bible refers to the heart that it is figurative.

then when ever the watchtower referred to the heart it always put the word figurative in front of it.. does anyone know why there was a change in the use of the word heart?

Splash

They have flip-flopped their way around this topic for over 100 years:

WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF OUR PHYSICAL HEART?

JUST A PUMP - w1888 July p.6

The secret of how the mind operates upon disease undoubtedly lies in the fact that the brain is not only the seat of all thought, but of all feeling.

MORE THAN JUST A PUMP - w71 3/1 p. 134 par. 5 How Is Your Heart?

The brain, in which the mind resides, is one thing and the heart in our thorax, with its power of motivation, is another thing.

NOT JUST A PUMP - w71 3/1 p. 134 par. 6 - 7 How Is Your Heart?

we do not want to make the mistake of viewing the literal heart as merely a fleshly pump as does orthodox physiology today.

The heart is a marvelously designed muscular pump, but, more significantly, our emotional and motivating capacities are built within it. Love, hate, desire (good and bad), preference for one thing over another, ambition, fear—in effect, all that serves to motivate us in relationship to our affections and desires springs from the heart.

The sensations of the heart are recorded on the brain. It is here that the heart brings to bear on the mind its desires and its affections in arriving at conclusions having to do with motivations... The heart is a marvelously designed muscular pump, but, more significantly, our emotional and motivating capacities are built within it.

IT'S YOUR PERSONALITY - w71 3/1 p. 135 par. 10 How Is Your Heart?

One thing is sure, in losing their own hearts [by heart transplant], they have had taken away from them the capacities of "heart" built up in them over the years and which contributed to making them who they were as to personality.

IT HAS EMOTIONS - w75 8/1 p. 480 Questions From Readers

We should keep in mind that the human body is a harmonious whole, with all the members thereof being dependent on one another. Therefore, emotions, feelings, desires and the like cannot entirely be limited to any one specific organ such as the brain, heart or kidneys.

JUST A PUMP - w84 9/1 p. 12 par. 15 "Who Has Come to Know Jehovah's Mind?"

Regardless of whether a person is conscious or not, the heart keeps pumping the blood to the brain and all other parts of the body.

IT HAS THOUGHTS - w84 9/1 p. 19 The "Kidneys" and the "Heart" in the Scriptures

At Hebrews 4:12 it is stated that "the word of God . . . is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart." This signifies that "the heart" is the thing that induces and motivates the thoughts and intentions, which are discerned by "the word of God."

RIDICULE THOSE WHO SAID IT WAS MORE THAN JUST A PUMP - w86 6/1 p. 15 par. 2 Determined to Serve Jehovah With a Complete Heart

The ancient Egyptians believed that the physical heart was the seat of intelligence and the emotions. They also thought that it had a will of its own. The Babylonians said that the heart housed the intellect as well as love. The Greek philosopher Aristotle taught that it was the seat of the senses and the domain of the soul. But as time passed and knowledge increased, these views were discarded. Finally the heart became known for what it is, a pump to circulate the blood throughout the body.

IT DOES NOT MOTIVATE - w95 1/15 p. 16 par. 3 Serve Jehovah With Joy of Heart

Though the physical heart is mentioned in the Scriptures, it does not literally think or reason.

45

Whatever is bound on EARTH is already Loosed in Heaven

by Alex Williams in

when a person is guilty and worthy of punishment, the judgment ‘will already have been bound in heaven jesus said and if they are loosed or innocent it will already have been “loosed in heaven..in such judicial deliberations, jesus says, “where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there i am in their midst.” .

psalm 127:3.. children are a sacred trust, “an inheritance from jehovah.

jws abhor child abuse and view it as a crime.its recognized that the authorities are responsible for addressing such crimes.jws do not shield any perpetrator of child abuse from the authorities as has been alleged.

Splash

Just come across this thread and it's pretty amazing to me how elders are so unqualified to interrogate abuse victims yet consider themselves as wholly trained and suited to asking traumatic questions to abuse survivors.

There is nothing God approved about further harming young victims by clumsy and dangerous Judicial Committees presided over by ignorant, self-important imbeciles.

The WT organisation is riddled with abusers who are safer there than in other religions who cooperate fully with trained professionals to demonstrate they are both repentant and determined to improve.

The GB are so deluded, they think they know better than everyone and are too proud to apologise for their harmful policies.

This is why they spout stupidity about women's brains, 2" paintbrushes, overlapping generations, transfusions changing your personality, and so many flip flops they could open a beach side shoe store.

Trust men with a track record like theirs? You would need to ignore so many facts and overlook so many errors that your life would be just one huge self deception.

Good luck to those who choose to pretend it's defensible.

52

Can this be true: GB to court - NBC ??

by Festus in

is this a bad joke or "fake news"?.

nbc new york is claiming "attorneys are expected on monday to announce the filing of lawsuits in king's county supreme court against eight members of the governing body of the jehovah's witnesses for alleged child sexual abuse claims.".

eventhough i would enjoy to see this happen i am very suspiciouse concerning nbcs reliability with this case.. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/happening-today-nj-water-cosby-appeal-epstein-probe-536740491.html.

Splash

There may be imposters in the congregation, but it's the Governing Body who create policies which force abused children to confront their molesters, be asked if they enjoyed the abuse, are further abused if they didn't have the courage to scream and which allows abusers to regain their powerful elder status.

40

Questions About the Watchtower's View on Blood Transfusions.

by Pallbearer in

i admit to not being very well informed about the watchtower's view on blood transfusions.

i have a couple of questions that i hope someone here is able to answer.. i understand that the watchtower now considers it to be okay to receive blood fractions.. my first question is: are all fractions considered to be permissible?

and if not, specifically which fractions are not permissible?.

Splash

1. If a baby needs a white cell transfusion it would not be allowed, yet it can feed on white cells from its mother, literally eating what is allegedly prohibited.

How do you make sense of this?

2. If under the Law an animal had a vein opened for a short while and lived on, would the collected blood be acceptable to God as a sacrifice? No, the animal had to die. It's the lifeblood that was prohibited from being eaten. When someone donates blood they don't die, so God doesn't view that as lifeblood and the prohibition doesn't app!y.

3. What's God's view of the WT after it banned the taking of haemoglobin and people died, then it permitted haemoglobin. The WT literally took people's lives through their arrogant ineptness.

4. What was the purpose of Jesus saying about rescuing an animal on the Sabbath. What does "I want mercy not sacrifice" mean?

5. Who decided that blood fractions were ok but those four components were not. How do we know God endorses that? In Eden could Eve have eaten a fraction of the fruit and been ok, maybe just the fruit skin?

24

Watchtower volunteer injuries

by neat blue dog in

i was recently talking with a zealous 'sister' who for years was assigned to use a certain chemical while taking care of wt property, only to have it irreparably damage her immune system partly because she wasn't trained properly.

she said there was a potential lawsuit but she didn't want to bring reproach on jehovah's organization.

has anybody else heard of similar situations, of people being hurt or injured in service to the org, maybe even because of them, and taking the loss so the org wouldn't look bad?.

Splash

I knew an elder pioneer who was given the job of Safety Officer at an assembly hall build.

No training, no experience, and told not to cause any problems. He basically just stood around turning a blind eye to everything.

The KHAA fund was for self insuring. Payout values were paltry as you'd expect from the JW org. In the region of a couple of thousand if you lost an eye, for example.

4

Proverbs 4:18

by Insight- in

i'm so curios about when jehovah's witnesses started to use/mention "proverbs 4:18" for changing their doctrines or briefs.. did they start it from early 1800's by russell ?

or next generation of jw's --- j.f.

rutherford?

Splash

"self exalting speculators"

What a perfect self description!

21

Are Christians to be Witnesses of Jesus or Jehovah?

by blondie in

jw
friends

i was doing research on another topic and this question came to mind.

notice how the wts dances around the question below and then my comments about that and whether historically did the wts see isaiah as applying to all jws or only anointed members, spiritual israel (galatians 6:16)?.

are christians to be witnesses of jesus or jehovah?.

Splash

WHO'S WITNESSES SHOULD WE BE (ISA 43:10)?

w13 3/15 p. 24 par. 2 Honor Jehovah's Great Name

"Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, are proud to bear God's name and to glorify it."

Acts 11:26 - "the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."

Matthew 10:18 - "...for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations." [JESUS]

Mark 13:9 - "...before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them." [JESUS]

Luke 24:47, 48 "and on the basis of [JESUS] name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preachedi in all the nations... You are to be witnesses of these things"

Acts 1:8 - "You will be witnesses of me..." [JESUS]

John 1:15 - "John bore witness about him..." [JESUS]

John 5:37 - "the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me." [JESUS]

John 8:18 - "the Father who sent me bears witness about me." [JESUS]

John 15:26,27 - "...will bear witness about me; and YOU in turn, are to bear witness." [JESUS]

Acts 4:17,18 - ...upon the basis of this (Jesus) .... upon the basis of the name of Jesus.

Acts 10:39 - "And we are witnesses of all the things he [Jesus] did..."

Acts 10:43 - "To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness..."

Acts 13:31 - "who are now his (Jesus') witnesses to the people.

Acts 22:15 - "because you are to be a witness for him [Jesus] to all men..."

Acts 22:20 - "......the blood of Stephen your [Jesus'] witness was being spilled..."

Acts 23:11 - "..... a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem..." [JESUS]

Acts 26:16 -"I [Jesus]..choose you as an attendant and a witness...respecting me" [JESUS]

1 Corinthians 1:6 - "even as the witness about the Christ..."

Galatians 1:6-8 - ...if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news [about Christ] we declared to you, let him be accursed.

1 Tim. 2:6 - "..what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times."

2 Timothy 1:8 - "...of the witness about our Lord.. [Christ]"

1 John 5:9 - "the witness God gives...the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son."

Revelation 1:9 - "....for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus."

Revelation 3:8 - ...."and you kept my word and did not prove false to my name." [JESUS]

Revelation 12:17 - "...and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus."

Revelation 17:6 - "...and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus."

Revelation 19:10 -"...the work of witnessing to Jesus.... bearing witness to Jesus."

Revelation 20:4 - "... for the witness they bore to Jesus."

Note:

Isa 43:10 "'You are my witnesses,' declares Jehovah" is a reminder about what God had done and will do.

Vs 1: God reminds them that he bought them and they belong to him. (Jacob and Israel)

Vs 2: God promises to protect them

Vs 3: God reminds them that Egypt was their ransom

Vs 4: God tells them they are precious in His eyes

Vs 5-7: God assures them of his continued being with them

Vs 8-9: Now, here's the key: God issues a challenge to the nations and asks them to produce THEIR witnesses to see who is right: "Let all the nations assemble in one place,..."

"Let them present their witnesses to prove themselves right"

Vs 10: God then says to the Israelites, "YOU are my witnesses."

This wasn't about naming a group of people. This was about who is right and who is wrong. Who could produce witnesses for themselves that could truthfully claim to have been a saviour, protector, etc.

This was God's challenge to the nations, and He names the Israelites as HIS witnesses to that fact.

Then Isa 62:2 adds "The nations will see your righteousness, O woman, And all kings your glory.

And you will be called by a new name, Which Jehovah's own mouth will designate"

This was fulfilled in Acts 11:26 - "the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."

40

Unky Punky just wanted ...

by punkofnice in

jw
friends

...to drop by and say, 'ayup, mates', to you all, my old friends.. i am so totally over the jobo thing i have surprised myself.. if anyone asks, 'what do you think of the jobos?

' my reply would be, 'i don't think of them.'.

all my rage, anger and sadness have dissipated over time.

Splash

Hey Punkster, nice to hear you're over the trauma.

It's amazing how we have to go through so much to escape the JW religion, but we're all on the broad and spacious (lol) road to freedom now.

Much like yourself I'm feeling pretty well adjusted these days. The anger and anxiety are gone. I just laugh at the feeble minded JW reasoning and shoo away any self important nobody's that try to exert influence over me - not that any do anymore.

It's been too long since we had a pint together!

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Splash

And to think I wasn't allowed a two-door car in case it stumbled someone.

6

Can any researchers here shed light on two of Bro Russell's companies?

by Splash in

i have recently read two old newspaper articles from the early 1900's where bro russell speaks about two companies he created.. one was the united states realty company, and the other was the united states investment company.. the only thing i can find that comes close today is the united states realty and investment company which was established in 1927.. https://www.manta.com/c/mmcc47w/united-states-realty-investment-co-inc. is this a shell company for wt?.

Splash

Thank Atlantis, this is a new resource for me!

Splash

Posts by Splash

WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF OUR PHYSICAL HEART?