Posts by Sauerkraut

32

Why judgment is to begin at the house of God?

by Kosonen in

" for the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of god: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of god?

and if the righteous is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?

"- 1peter4:17-18. why for god to judge his own house?

Sauerkraut

Kosonen, I don't believe that the Father and Christ are equal, still I find your post arrogant and judgemental. Could it be that you missed one of the most important aspects of Jesus' teachings?

46

new thinking after reading Collosians

by Honeybucket in

i read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.

maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.

even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.

Strong emotions need to be kept in check, ÁrbolesdeArabia. It's tiresome to see how most believers think they have it all figured out and need to adjust others viewpoints. At the end of the day, no one can claim to have the truth and to know it all. It would be good for all to remember that. Folks, the bible is not a tool to strike others with if they have a different opinion.

Did Jesus punish the people for not knowing? Or did he speak up against the religious leaders for burdening others down and confusing them? All here agree that Jesus is the way, right? Remember the common ground. I find it hard to believe that God would punish anyone for accepting or not accepting the Trinity. Usually it's believers who make issues, not God. There are things that can be debated without end, because there is no absolute clarity, if God wanted it known for sure, he would make that happen.

46

new thinking after reading Collosians

by Honeybucket in

i read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.

maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.

even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.

Sauerkraut

What is with the dogmatism in this thread?

68

need to talk/vent. wifey wt problems

by unstopableravens in

my wife ask me if im going to make up the assmebly, i reminder her that i in clean conscience can not go anymore,as soon as the word anymore came out the tears started flooding.

it hurts me to see her like this.

i talked to her calm trying to explain why i cant worship with doctrine that is so clearly wrong.

Sauerkraut

Bro, in these situations we end up having to try to keep our own peace of mind. Don't worry about how she will be viewed at the hall, it's nothing that you have control over, don't waste your energy. If you can don't even answer questions, at least for the time being. You can tell your wife that you don't want to get into discussions but that you want to keep the peace.

From experience I can say that sometimes we fit the Apostate profile. We are eager to defend the real truth, that eagerness can easily be viewed as bitterness by Witnesses because they look at it as an attack on them and their religion. If I had to start over, I'd be far more careful and gentle with defending my standpoint. Too late for me.

68

need to talk/vent. wifey wt problems

by unstopableravens in

my wife ask me if im going to make up the assmebly, i reminder her that i in clean conscience can not go anymore,as soon as the word anymore came out the tears started flooding.

it hurts me to see her like this.

i talked to her calm trying to explain why i cant worship with doctrine that is so clearly wrong.

Sauerkraut

Unstoppableravens: sorry to hear about your troubles. Though I'm not married I'm going through somewhat similar things with a close family member. It hurts, as deep as can be. Hang in there! Same for you DATA-DOG and all others!

Unstoppableravens, you've made clear where you stand, is it possible to avoid further confrontation for a while? Until your wife has had some time to deal with the new situation? Sometimes it's better to not defend oneself and just let matters be for the sake of peace. She does deserve the truth, but right now she needs to get used to the changes in your relationship.

89

1975 - A weak argument?

by Christ Alone in

i posted this on an older thread, but i wanted to get an honest opinion about this from all of you.

i think taking the 1975 approach with a jw is...weak.

was it wrong (and false prophetic) of them?

Sauerkraut

It may be a weak argument for most Witnesses, but when I read the articles that mentioned 1975 I felt surprised how highminded the attitude of those responsible was back then. Considering the JW mindset it was as if they had said the end would come then, they just let the minds of the publishers fill in the blanks. Judging by the effects it had on many Witnesses it worked.

This statement is one I can't get over: “ ...This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” It's amazing how the WT leaders are arrogant and cow ardous at the same time. Far from humble. Any honest person reviewing the whole 19 75 thing should come to the conclusion that what happened then was wrong and dangerous. Despite of whether they clearly said it or not. Problem is with most Witnesses there's no such thing as a strong argument anyway.

107

1975 For Deniers

by Farkel in

1975 for deniers.

most of today's jws were not members in 1975 or in the 9 years prior to 1975, so they were not eyewitnesses to what really went on during that period.

i was a pioneer in that period, and i was an eyewitness to what went on.. those jws who are still active today and who were around in that period will typically say it was the "brothers" who "ran ahead of jehovah" and "read more into" the 1975 prediction than what was actually stated.

Sauerkraut

Christ Alone, I think it's not just about what they said or did not say. They had a responsibility to consider how their words would be picked up by Witnesses. Most likely they never said that the end would come in 1975 because they knew it was a risk, but isn't it likely that they counted on Witnesses being hyped up? It was their responsibility to use and choose words very carefully. They failed. I think they willfully insiunated the whole 1975 thing knowing that it would be beneficial for them. It was an opportunity to push Witnesses' buttons and get them to work harder.

20

"Assembly Day 1" "Elders Will Help You Understand Society's Publications That Contradict The Bible"???

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

"data-dog", elders do not have time to involve themselves with publishers "personal, secret views", why can't the sheep do their own personal thinking and keep it to themselves if they desire to remain "in good standing"?

watchtower is afraid of the internet, men like simon, randy and greg stafford, anderson cos (women too) sites putting questions into thinking jws heads.

the wts is nervous because of the effect sites like jwn, freeminds, e-watchman, elihu , jw romania".

Sauerkraut

Elders have no time to help, it's the sad truth all JWs must eventually face.

How many Elders are simply too busy with shining and glory seeking?

When will the Watchtower Society allow elders to keep their own houses from imploding?

Maybe it's harsh to say this: who forces anyone to be an Elder?

Elder's are underappreciated, do all the shit work, do their best to try to help the sheep.

Are you sure about that? How many Elders have their noses in the air? I have Elders in my family, they are some of the worst people I have ever observed. They don't care about helping sheep, it's all about status and being in the elite club. They've become extremely arrogant and like to dominate others. Perhaps Elders are becoming more and more underappreciated because the sheep see that they can't depend on them, at least not always. When you read the publications you are shown how it's supposed to be and I can imagine that many then see that reality is far different, that their shepherds aren't there for them, that they don't seem to care or are too busy.

(Most elders are good people, some are very bad, a small minority are wicked) with no formal education.

Most Elders can switch to very bad very quickly when it comes to taking care of business, as many here can testify, myself included. They'll forget about compassion and kindness. To some extent they can't be blamed, they're conditioned. But I wouldn't call them good people. Good company men for sure.

My observation is that many Elders want to shine but don't want to get their hands dirty, meaning doing the real work- taking care of people, looking after people. Statements as "I would really like to help out the weak, but I just don't have the time" are revealing. How many have that mentality? Saying something like that openly reveals who matters and who doesn't.

73

Circuit Assembly Highlights. Day 1

by DATA-DOG in

well things were actually pretty boring.

i mean really boring.

that's the price of fading i guess.

Sauerkraut

Data-DOG, Bro, wasn't even thinking you were sensationalizing. Just making sure because it's one thing if "regular" Witnesses speak of "where shall we go to", but if someone on stage says it it's even worse. Either ignorance or manipulation at its best on the speaker's part.

Flipper, I hope you're right. Would be great. Don't want the GB folks to enjoy the donated luxuries too much, let'em worry all day long. How weird that non Witnesses are demonized but then Witnesses are supposed to love them and help them join true worship. If you fear someone you'll have a hard time to be open enough to help him. Maybe it's just my relatively new awakening but they seem to become more and more cultish.

73

Circuit Assembly Highlights. Day 1

by DATA-DOG in

well things were actually pretty boring.

i mean really boring.

that's the price of fading i guess.

Sauerkraut

We must accept the entirety of the truth through God's Organization! Every truth we have ever learned has been through the Oganization and the FDS! We must all be of the same mind! We should not harbor private beliefs, even in our own minds and hearts! We do not believe teachings that go beyond God's word or the publicationns of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class. ( Yep, he said class ) We do not visit websites that are critical of our doctrine!

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Almost every untruth having an impact on my life came from the Organization and FDS! Way to go. Not harboring private beliefs in our minds? If that isn't an attempt at mind control, sadly many Witnesses will drive home and feel ashamed because they have doubts inside.

3) Remember that every truth you have ever learned come from the Organization! Remember Peter said " Where else can we go? "

Did the speaker really say that? Wish I could see the outline.

Also, we must not cling to cultural norms in place of Bible principles. Like all night wakes for the dead, Women spiritually taking the lead in the home, EXCUSING CHILD ABUSE AND SPOUSE ABUSE, wild parties, lunch with workmates. Loyalty to family may sound good, but is it?

The hypocrisy of JWs never ceases to amaze me, they are so out of touch with reality. Often the Org reminds me of secret societies. There's one image for the public, then there's one image for the majority of believers and the higher you rise the more you get to know what's really going on. Most Witnesses have no idea about the child abuse cases and how they are kept hidden. That was one of the things that really freaked me out when I started researching online. Most will sit there and blame evil Catholics for their filthiness and child abuse cases, unaware that their own religion is no better, worse even because no one in the Organization ever stands up to do something about it.

Some of the things that they call "cultural norms" really are normal things for human beings. Not all parties are wild, having lunch with workmates- what's bad about that? Loyalty to family? Oh yeah, in the last days people will be disloyal to parents... and without natural affection... JWs at the forefront far too often. Anything that is emotionally healthy for people is bad and dangerous. Evil workmates, evil family. Hopefully most have decent if not good workmates so they secretly come to the conclusion that the advice in such programs is over the top.

Another quote: " Do not listen to Apostates. Avoid those who teach what is contrary to the teachings of Christ Jesus! "

Yes, don't listen to the folks in Brooklyn.

Data-Dog I don't envy you for having to sit through that. Good luck with day two, don't loose your cool. Don't hurl your bible at any of the speakers. Thanks for sharing some thoughts and notes.