Posts by RWC

29

The Sins of the Father: Bible Error

by JosephAlward in

joe alward .

the bible contradicts itself in the matter of punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

in one place is says that it is strictly forbidden, but in another the lord speaks of slaughtering sons for the sins of their forefathers, and in yet another place the lord orders the murder of suckling babes.

RWC

Rem, that is not what I said or meant. I was simply pointing out that Joseph was attempting to compare two different things and call the differences a contradiction.

29

The Sins of the Father: Bible Error

by JosephAlward in

joe alward .

the bible contradicts itself in the matter of punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

in one place is says that it is strictly forbidden, but in another the lord speaks of slaughtering sons for the sins of their forefathers, and in yet another place the lord orders the murder of suckling babes.

RWC

The Deuteronomy quote is clearly directed to a set of laws to be followed by the nation of Israel. It was an end to clan revenge that was the norm. It is justice by humans towards humans. Read it in the context of the the rest of the verses that come before it and after it.

It cannot be compared with justice as delivered by God as in the other portions you have noted. What you have shown is no contradiction at all.

God Bless

24

Jacob's Branches and Genetics: Bible Error

by JosephAlward in

joe alward.

about a year ago i raised this issue of the bible-writers' apparent belief that the color of one's offspring is determined in part by what you're looking at while you're mating.

we didn't obtain then what i considered a satisfactory resolution of this problem, so i'm presenting it once again for the forum's consideration:.

RWC

Joesph A., Where in the Genesis account does it say that it is intended to be a genetics lesson on the mating habits of Goats and Sheep? The purpose of the account is Jacob's way, with God's help to keep Laban from continuing to cheat him from his wages. It is not God saying in order to have speckeled sheep you must use striped branches. The lesson that is trying to be taught by God is not one of science but that he has shown favor to Jacob as his chosen people. Don't try to create a problem by reading more into the account than what is there.

God Bless

31

An Eye for an Eye: Bible Error

by JosephAlward in

many months ago i offered the "eye for an eye" conflict as evidence that the bible cannot be trusted to provide non-contradictory moral guidance.

since that time many new people have joined this forum, so i present this bible "difficulty" once again:.

scripture teaches that one should destroy one's enemies, and take an eye for an eye: "show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

RWC

Joesph, It is nice to see you again. I have to agree with those that say there is no contradiction in what you present. I notice that in alot of your arguments you take portions out of context and take passages literally when they are clearly not intended to be taken as so.

You can point to alot of passages in the Old Test. where prophets are saying that God has delivered Isreal from the hands of its enemies, that thousands of people were killed apparently with the approval of God. God protecting his chhosen people from their enemies and those who would want to destroy them and ultimatley his plan for our salvation does not mean that God has changed his commandment to us that we should not kill.

Jesus' explaination that you should turn the other cheek is not a contradiction of the teaching in Deut. Both are teaching that evil should not be tolerated. On the one hand if a person comes into court and falsly testifies about someone else, as an example to the community punish that man severly. This will be done as an example to others and root out evil from Isreal. That does not mean in your daliy lives return evil with evil because the authority to impose punishment has been given to the courts. Jesus was saying in your daily lives when someone treats you bad, turn to him in love. This too will show that evil does not have its intended result and allows you to show the love and compassion that is needed.

Jesus was also not reversing the teachings in Ecclesiastes. He was having people focus on the bigger picture of their salvation. Living life to its fullness in happiness and with a joyful heart becuase of the blessings that have been given to you, as explained in Ecclesiates, is not contradicted by teaching that in doing so, don't lose sight of your salvation and what it takes to get there. If you live for riches, you are not following Christ. If you will not give up your life for him, you will not have salvation. That is the teachings of those passages you refer to. To say that Jesus hated family is not in keeping with the rest of his teachings. To say that he did not mourn or feel saddness when loved ones died ignores his miracles in raising people from the dead and dieing himself for us.

I think you are too smart not to recognize what you are doing when you raise these supposed contradictions. I think you secretly agree with those that argue with you and can recognize the shallowness of your position and are just seeking a reaction. If so, keep it up. Your arguments have forced me to examine things and have strengthened my faith. Thank you. God Bless

36

Was the catholic church an Enemy of scripture?

by gumby in

does the print in bold type remind you guys of another organisation you can think of??????????

was the catholic church an avowed enemy of scripture

was it really fear of false doctrine that caused the church to object to the scriptures being in the hands of the laity?

RWC

Gumby, to answer your questions, I don't think that everyone should become Catholic. There is a benefit to different ideas. However, the world would be a better place if everone followed the doctrine of the Chrisitan Church the way that Jesus taught it. With its emphasis on grace anad mercy and walking daily with Christ, the Catholic Church is the closest I have found to those ideals.

God Bless

36

Was the catholic church an Enemy of scripture?

by gumby in

does the print in bold type remind you guys of another organisation you can think of??????????

was the catholic church an avowed enemy of scripture

was it really fear of false doctrine that caused the church to object to the scriptures being in the hands of the laity?

RWC

Kenneson,

Thank you for your thoughtful responses in defense of Catholic Doctrine.

To the others who attack the Catholic faith,

There is no argument that the Catholic church has had some bad times and has driftied from its mission during its history. Some parts of its history cannot be defended and can only be called horrible. The wonder of the Catholic Church is that it has always returned to its roots for the past two thousand years. Even more so now.

It is also very diverse. The Catholic Church in America is very differnet from the Cathoic Church in Mexico. It is also a very tolerant Church of other religions, unlike those that attack it.

As for Mary, you can be a Catholic and not believe everything the Church says about Mary. However, I find their devotion to her very comforting. She is seen as the mother of the Church and someone who shows mercy and comfort to those in need, just llike your mother on earth. Jesus revered her even at his death when he instructed others to take care of her. He listened to her at Caanan when she asked him to help at the wedding even though he said it wasn't his time and performed his first miracle.

As for Catholic tradition, this concept is very misunderstood. Tradition cannot contradict anything in the scriptures. It must be supported in the scriptrues and most have their roots in the very early church.

The Catholic church is a truly apostolic church that trace its roots back to the very time after Christ. And even though it has wandered at times and engaged in horrible acts at times, it has been the caretaker of the faith and of Chrisitianity for close to 2000 years. Well over one billion people belong to the church worldwide and it continues to grow.

God Bless

39

GOD LOVES YOU -- GOD IS LOVE!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

because his works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

he who doesn't love his brother remains in death.

1st john 3:23: this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his son, jesus christ, and love one another, even as he commanded.. 1st john 3:24: he who keeps his commandments remains in him, and he in him.

RWC

Farkel, with all due respect, your opinion on the Bible is simply your opinion. The Bible is and always will be relevant. The problems people faced in Biblical times are no different then we face today. The solutions outlined in the Bible work as well then as they do now. The problem is not what the Bible teaches, but how some people want to avoid its teachings in this day of relative morals and how some people distort those teachings for their own gain. For example, your claim that the Bible is anti woman is not true. Jesus showed more respect for woman than any teacher before him and taught that a man must love his wife as He loved the church. In other words, with complete devotion and willingness to lay down his life for her. He preached against adultery for both sexes, saved a women from being stoned while the man who committed the sin with her was no where to be found, gave insturctions while he was dying to take care of his mother, etc...

The morals taught in the Bible and the lessons taught through those whose lives are detailed in the Bible can be very helpful today.The overall theme of the Bible is one of love, repentance for sins, the power of forgiveness and how to live a rightous life for yourself and your fellow man. People face the consequences of their misdeeds and when they repent they feel and enjoy the life giving forgiveness that is offerd to them. With all of the hate and despair in the world today, what isn't relevant about a book that contains the answers to allievate the suffering and shows the way to stop it all if we would simply follow it? The problem is not the book or its teachings, but with those who chose not to follow it.

29

Saintly Sluttiness?

by patio34 in

i ran across this this morning at lucianne.com and thought it really had a different perspective than the usual bible-based values in a lot of our world today (that aren't really adhered to anyway).

i highlighted the pertinent parts, imo.

i put it in bible research because it contradicts the bible and is based on evolutionary science.

RWC

Pat- thank you for your kind words. You are correct that I am coming from a Biblical viewpoint. I would only add to what you said by saying that in my view, even though the Bible was written thousands of years ago, it contains universal truths which are applicable to moderan society. Such as honor for your parents, fidelity, respect for your neighbor, avoiding greed and sexual promiscuity. All of which can be a framework for your life today.

SS- I agree that a sexless marriage, unless that arrangement is agreed to by both parties or is the result of illness, can lead to alot of problems and is unfortunate. The idea of a Christian based marriage is far from a sexless one and unfortunately too many churches have mistakenly taught that doctrine. On the contrary, a marriage that is grounded in Christian principles can be very sexually satisfying. God made sex fun and enjoyable and as long as it is practiced within the confines of a marriage by belief is he strongly encourages it.

God Bless

29

Saintly Sluttiness?

by patio34 in

i ran across this this morning at lucianne.com and thought it really had a different perspective than the usual bible-based values in a lot of our world today (that aren't really adhered to anyway).

i highlighted the pertinent parts, imo.

i put it in bible research because it contradicts the bible and is based on evolutionary science.

RWC

SS- I am not sure what you mean by "socially capable", but I do not see how it could be argued that a person who is unfaithful to his family or who has multiple sexual partners can be claimed to have acted in a responsible manner. The pain and descruction caused by infidelity is without question. The idea that the embracing of this behavior as being socially acceptable cannot be good for society, nor can be good for the family.

I agree with you that extended families are important and that even living in a communal enviroment can be helpful. We have lost that in our modern society. However, just because extended families live together, doesn't mean they all need to be sleeping together. In fact I would argue that the idea that sexual intimacy can and should be divorced from emotional commitment will lead to a lack of respect for others and a lack of connection in a community. The whole notion of family and a commitment to each other is cheapened to the point that is not needed any longer.

Thought provoking post. Thanks God Bless

29

Saintly Sluttiness?

by patio34 in

i ran across this this morning at lucianne.com and thought it really had a different perspective than the usual bible-based values in a lot of our world today (that aren't really adhered to anyway).

i highlighted the pertinent parts, imo.

i put it in bible research because it contradicts the bible and is based on evolutionary science.

RWC

SS- I'll admit you lost me with "I rest my case". If you think that my post proved your point than either I misunderstood your first one or you misunderstood me.

As for the positive effects of female promiscuity, other than some happy men, I don't see any. I think that you are assuming that humans, with far more emotional capability than animals and with the abililty to reason beyond survival would respond the same way to their women becoming promiscuious. I don't believe that most men would accept that in such away that we would bond together. The invevitable result would be the destruction of the family. How many people do you know who feel better that their partner was unfaithful and thank them for it telling them it was good for the children?

Jgnat- from your post it appeared that your spouse, not you failed at the idea of sticking to one partner. If that is the case, do not feel that it was your fault. Your daughter can still have a good self esteem if she learns from you what she should expect in her mate, even if that person fails to meet that expectation. But I agree with you that it is important for girls to have a strong father figure in their life. If that is not possible, a strong mother who can show them by example how they should expect to be treated may be the best you can do.

God Bless