Posts by Xanthippe

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

Xanthippe

xanhippe I'm still waiting for an example or an apology for calling me dishonest. - Cofty

LOL you do make me laugh. I think you are being intellectually dishonest. When Fraz raised the subject of banning religion and what a mistake that had been in the Soviet Union you said that was not what you meant at all. When I then tackled you about your desire to see the end of religion you said,

I would love to see an end to religion, but only because everybody decided of their own volition that it was nonsense.

This isn't going to happen is it? That's as much a risible fairy story as religious belief. So why are you backing down from the question that I (and I believe Fraz) were driving at which is what do you expect or hope to see happen to religion? We are all well aware that you would love to see an end to it but with the above statement you are dodging the question of how this will happen. Perhaps the crux of the matter is that you haven't really thought it through and you think it is a simple matter of people intelligently deriding religion for a long period of time.

47

Hi Guys, I'm new here...

by Mikado in

jw
friends

been lurking for years, but couldn't log on.

for some reason, my email spam filter is inaccessable, and ended up having to open another account, simply to become a member... wonder how many others have had a similar problem.. its been an eye opener reading everyones life experiences, often so similar.. i was almost a born in, with a hardcore family.

abusive stepfather who was one of the original jws in the area, so much so, that it was called the xxxxx family religion.... been out for 25 years, am glad every day for that!!.

Xanthippe

Welcome Mikado. I've been out twenty-five years too. It wasn't easy without the internet was it? It will be good to hear your thoughts on moving on.

10

Birthday Cake Ice Ceam

by Pattytheperfectone in

my sister recently went back to the witness religion and has a precious 4 year old boy.

he is the most adorable little boy, as all children are at that age.

i respect my sisters decision to go back to the religion, i cringe and don't like it but it's her decision to make.

Xanthippe

Hi Patty and welcome. Your nephew sounds adorable. So sad that he is parroting the JW beliefs at four years old, it must break your heart. Remember though that at four kids do this, say whatever their parents tell them. At fifteen it might be a different story! Just be there for him, when he starts to rebel.

14

Well son got married this weekend,

by jam in

Xanthippe

Jam, sorry this has been a really difficult time for you. You must be exhausted. I'm happy for your son and his wife that they are in love and like you I hope it lasts. Take care, you have had a really hard time but you have raised a fine son.

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

Xanthippe

Please offer one single quotation that suggests otherwise.

In the book, Hitchens contends that organised religion is "violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children" and sectarian, and that accordingly it "ought to have a great deal on its conscience." Hitchens supports his position with a mixture of personal stories, documented historical anecdotes and critical analysis of religious texts. His commentary focuses mainly on the Abrahamic religions, although it also touches on other religions, such as Hinduism and Buddhism.....

He ends by saying that he would not want to eradicate religion if the faithful would "leave him alone," but ultimately they are incapable of this.
(Emphasis mine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great

I here cite wikipedia because I returned God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens to the library after I read it.

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

Xanthippe

Nobody I have ever encountered wants to ban religion.

Richard Dawkins wants to see an end to religion and Christopher Hitchens felt the same way. To say you have never encountered anyone who wants this when you regularly quote these people is at the very least rather dishonest.

75

FORGIVENESS ... You owe it to your health

by ABibleStudent in

i'm cleaning up my home of unnecessary magazines/newsletters that i have accumulated over the years.

while i was working as an employee i did not feel like i had the time to read them.

now that i'm not working as an employee but work as a volunteer to network and maintain workplace skills, i seem to have more time to read.. after reading many threads by former jws, i thought that the following article might help some to heal.

Xanthippe

Talesin I didn't mean to be insensitive. I was picking the very worst things I could think of because we all know people or have read about people who have lived through these things and survived.

I didn't mean they are insignificant by saying shit happens, I meant life has been terrible for the people of earth for a long, long time. The recent phenomena of cults in the last hundred years is just one of the causes of suffering.

I had five years of clinical depression and spent every day wishing I was dead. My brain chemistry went wrong. Shit happens. When people find out my husband dropped to the ground of a brain hemorrhage and was gone in minutes from 75% brain damage probably due to an aneurysm, these days I honestly find that the words, these things happen, pop into my head as a reply to them.

I am not being insensitive, I am being a survivor. You can only react that way if you've been there.

28

Remember this picture?

by Zoos in

i went to a small non-denominational church yesterday - first time in a church since i left the borg 4 years ago - and this is how i observed several of the members singing.. .

boy... do those people love to sing.. .

i try not to judge the sincerity of others but i was a little put off by the experience because it looked fake, showy display-ish.

Xanthippe

Could be arthritis.

75

FORGIVENESS ... You owe it to your health

by ABibleStudent in

i'm cleaning up my home of unnecessary magazines/newsletters that i have accumulated over the years.

while i was working as an employee i did not feel like i had the time to read them.

now that i'm not working as an employee but work as a volunteer to network and maintain workplace skills, i seem to have more time to read.. after reading many threads by former jws, i thought that the following article might help some to heal.

Xanthippe

So what if you had spent five years in a concentration camp.

Been sexually abused your entire childhood.

Or forcibly conscripted to fight for your country.

Shit happens.

We can't do anything about most of it.

What Robert is saying, I think, is that do we want to be eaten up with bitterness our whole lives and spend hours every day thinking about something we can't change, until we are too old to enjoy ... anything?

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

Xanthippe

People who believe fairy tales are true. Argh. - Hortensia

Odd thing to say if you used to be a JW.

I like the point that atheists have had to give up some comfort in order to face reality. It's true. Reality includes each person's demise, life isn't forever. It's a sad truth, but one we can face and then we can get on with enjoying life as much as possible. - Hortensia

Two things come to mind here

1. Some people leave the JWs very late in life and find in very difficult to give up their comfort zone if they are already at retirement age and feel their life has been wasted. To go on reading and studying and facing harsh reality is very difficult for them. Some, like my MIL would rather just go to church when she feels like it and keep her vague mainstream belief which isn't hurting anyone - it gets her through the last few years of her life and the death of her son.

2. I don't think it is so that every true believer that belongs to a church that teaches life after death is prevented from having a good life in the present. Not all churches teach about Christ's coming and an eschatological view of the world. We tend to make this mistake because we were raised in an eschatological cult. Eschatology, belief in the end of the world, is a very specific branch of theism. My MIL certainly enjoys life in the present, that is her personality. What she believes about life after death, I have no idea, we don't dicuss it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology