Yuck I couldn't get beyond the audience being commended for sitting in their seats like good boys and girls before the music started and the other conventions being ticked off for not doing the same. Talk to them like children and they love it. I just don't get it. It drove me crazy when I was in.
Xanthippe
JoinedPosts by Xanthippe
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29
Reading the Bible in 6 months isn't "anything to brag about" - Anthony Morris
by mac n cheese inthe 2015 annual meeting, specifically, part 1, right about minute 27, has anthony morris emphasizing that "you're better off reading one chapter (of the bible) and really absorbing it" than just reading the whole thing "as a challenge".
while i agree with the the whole idea of meditating on anything you read, it was doing this very thing that brought up so many unanswered questions.
i also came to the constant realization that the jws did not have a clue about what the bible really said.
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Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?
by Tenacious ini know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?
was it the wts and all its crap?
was it something you read?
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Xanthippe
Tenacious, to me it is obvious that no one is in charge of this planet. Disease, natural disasters, prey animals that kill humans etc., etc. You've heard it all before. What religions have done is try and give reasons why God actually is in charge but he just appears to be doing nothing. For example the Christian religions site Genesis and the Fall as the reason. The Devil, sin and Jesus' sacrifice are given as explanations of what has gone wrong and what God is doing about it.
The reality is there is no proof that God is doing anything. It's rather like someone allowing something terrible to happen to your family, then saying it's OK because they've made a huge anonymous cash donation to charity to make up for it. This is both impossible to prove and does nothing for the suffering your family members have endured.
Religions expect us to do what God commands, through whatever holy book we are raised with, without any proof that a supreme being exists at all. We will get proof, we are told, when we die or at the end of the world. That's just no proof at all is it? Especially annoying if we are expected to obey rules to be around to receive that proof eventually.
All religious explanations that God cares and is actually in charge and looking after us are all empty stories to me. They can't be proved and if you set those stories to one side all you are actually left with is a planet that shouts life got here by 'accident' rather than design and we have to make life as fair as we can by relieving suffering ourselves.
So although you have asked for references to support why I no longer believe in God I think rather you need to provide support for a belief because none has been given to satisfy me and my explanation fits the evidence.
To answer your other questions. If your life is unfulfilling in a spiritual way and you feel the need for something bigger than your current life then perhaps you need to do something to make your life more fulfilling? There are lots of ideas on Joliette's thread about spirituality. Is there a higher consciousness you ask? I don't know but perhaps we will discover the answer one day, it is a very big universe. I just don't think the answer lies in the ancient books of primitive humans.
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I'm not religious I'm spiritual?
by Joliette inhow do you guys feel when you hear people say this?
whenever i tell people that i'm not religious, a humanist, they said i'm not religious either, i'm spiritual.
i consider myself to be a humanist, and i can't tell you guys how happy i am being a humanist.
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Xanthippe
People like to pigeonhole you, categorise you but I am beginning to realise that being a humanist, valuing human beings means realising that we are all so different. I think beautiful scenery, sunsets, starry nights, crashing ocean waves, art and gorgeous architecture are spiritual. You might think something else is spiritual and that's ok.
We need to be strong enough and have enough self esteem to say I'm this way and you're that way and that's ok. Stop trying to change people. It would be so boring if we were all the same.
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What are the things that wake people up from the Watchtower Corporation?
by punkofnice inwhen i became an elder i saw the dark side.
a side i previously believed couldn't possibly exist in the one true religion of the happiest people on earth.. then they rolled out 'overlapping generations(tm)' and that was the last straw.. all my life i had doubts but surpressed them thinking i was at fault and not the cult leaders.. it seems more likely that now the governing body are parading around like popes, wearing their expensive jewellery, that this will nauseate even dyed in the wool jws.. i wonder if the wake up can be condensed into main categories?.
1. experiencing the cruel handling of matters by the wbt$ reps.. 2. crazy doctrine (eg.
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Xanthippe
Would you believe, reading philosophy started my mind working? These people had been asking questions like what does it mean to be a good person, does God exist, how should we treat fellow humans, for centuries.
Some of their answers were very similar to the ones in the Bible. One was identical, the golden rule, 500 years before Jesus. That planted ideas in my mind that there is something going on that is bigger than this little religion. Readin' stuff, it's good for ya.
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71
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon incontinuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.
so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.
if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.
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Xanthippe
The way I saw it: the bible says if you have something against your "brother" you should approach them.
Yes Matthew 18 as I recall, I dredged that up from somewhere! Nobody paid any attention to that scripture did they LHG? Yes I remember a lot of shunning without any platform announcements, marking I think they called it. Anyone could mark a person they decided was unsuitable association I think.
Very small-minded I agree. Fortunately they are not doing anything significant because it's a wonder anything gets done with so many people refusing to speak to other people. Hilarious isn't it. A control mechanism yes. You just have to refuse to be controlled.
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71
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon incontinuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.
so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.
if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.
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Xanthippe
I totally agree that they are choosing to shun. People have refused to hurt or give away their families under pain of terrible torture. Following orders is no excuse.
Sometimes they won't discuss what they are doing and just expect us to accept our 'punishment'. When they do this, as my family have done, then I think it's time to break ties.
There are consequences to hurting people. They have to accept these consequences or at the very least we have to show them that they don't get away with cruelty. Being normal and reacting normally to appalling treatment is hopefully the way to reach their authentic self, if that is still possible.
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40
We missed you at the meetings
by punkofnice ina vomit inducing comment.. i asked why do they have to specify 'meetings'?
they never miss us in tesco or the showcase cinema bar.. in their defence, a friend of mine said: 'that's because the meeting is where they normally would see you.'.
well, if they want to see you they can arrange a meal out or something.
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Xanthippe
Look 'em in the eye and ask if they want to meet up for a coffee - freddo
Exactly, they don't really want your company do they! I asked my sister to meet me for a coffee after my father's funeral because we had done the 'necessary family business' stuff for several weeks arranging it and I thought we were ok after that. Did she agree to meet me?
You've never seen such a fuss. She got her husband to phone me. He said they had done loads of studying, prayed about it and decided they couldn't afford to stumble anyone. It's just coffee, I said. More like they don't want to be seen with me because if someone tells the elders they may be dragged before a JC.
No one should have that much power over people's lives.
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Nice moment today
by Theburstbubble inso it's been a few months since i last went to a meeting but i've still had lots of guilty feelings about leaving, such as am i doing the right thing, thinking about friends and family, where do i go from here etc etc.
but i think once you stop believing you can't go back.. anyway, today i had a very nice experience.
my daughter had been to nursery today and when she got home i asked her what she had done and she excitedly told me they had been doing pumpkins.
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Xanthippe
Theburstbubble, great story thanks, it gave me a lovely warm feeling. I was lucky enough to be out of the cult before I had my daughter, so I made those kind of memories too.
My daughter came home from the Halloween party at primary school saying the teacher announced the prize for the best costume goes to the witch with the bat necklace and purple jumping spider and she looked down and realised it was her! She came home with a book token and a very big smile.
Firework displays are great in the UK. I treasure the memory of my little girl leaning back against her dad watching fireworks with her face aglow with excitement. Have a lovely time.
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"This is their best way of being in the new world"
by FreeAtLast1914 ina post from jwtalk.net reminded me of how demented the groupthink is among jehovah's witnesses (http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/16268-international-peace-security-news/):.
every one who is in the world today and dies tomorrow is in line for a ressurection.this is their best way of being in the new world.
they probably wouldn't get through the the gt.
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Xanthippe
To hope 'good' worldly people die before the Big A so that they can be in paradise.
Agree it is delusional. Reality is if all the good people in the world die we're all fu£k€d. They're the people who care about the planet and aren't sitting around waiting for God.
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Just read this on JW Talk......
by WHATSGOINGON injust saw this on the public area of jwtalk (i am not a member).
here is the link.. http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/23523-privvy-news/.
such a shame - i do feel for these ones - i just don't know what to say.... wgo.
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Xanthippe
Everyone is so tired - even those younger with no health problems so you are doing so well to hang in there Luezette - you are probably receiving power that is beyond normal. Hugs.
This is what gets to me, this cult is constantly forcing exhausted people to do more, more, more. This is why they're so desperate for the new system. They just want a rest. if only they would see they can just stop and rest, leave the meetings for a while and get well.
Of course the cult leaders know that if they stop the indoctrination for a few weeks they will start to mentally normalise and the leaders don't want that.