Posts by krejames

37

A Couple of thoughts on July WT

by Phizzy in

i actually got a bucket close by and read some of the study ed.

july 13 w.t my first reaction was amazement at how very muddled the whole thing was, i think if i had all those months to write articles since the noo lite was presented at the agm i could make a much better job of arguing the new ideas, and our very own sd7 could do even better !.

for instance, it is claimed in the chart, and the 2nd article i think, that the harvest began in 1914, by whom ?.

krejames

AnnOmaly:

"And I don't get why, if they go to the trouble of putting in endnotes this time, they cannot be bothered providing a proper reference to 'one scholar's quote so that the reader knows who said it and where if they are inclined to look it up. It drives me nuts that they don't properly credit their quotes."

I second that! Drives me nuts as well.

The OP wondered how this is going down at the KH. Well we had our CO visit recently and he plugged this WT in all of the three meetings during the course of his visit. "Packed from cover to cover with new understandings" "read it, study it, then read it again and study it again" "make a table to compare the previous understandings with the new understandings" (have to say those last two statements struck me as ironic), then the usual "thrilling" "you will be overjoyed" etc etc etc (lots of eager nodding from some of the uber dubs in the audience who had obviously read it already)

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

krejames

Great thread. Have marked this for future reference. I was wondering what everyone would make of that sneaky little phrase in the WT today hehe

I have to admit since reading "A People For His Name" I have become a bit of an apologist for CT Russell. Clearly a lot of his teachings were completely way off but I kind of get the impression he was a genuine guy, and at least someone I would have liked to have had a long interesting chat with. So I'm just going to come back on the following:

"Hey Fred Franz could never admit he caused the 1975 fiasco, he learned from the best spinner- C.T.Russell".

Russell probably was a good spinner, but anyone reading through this thread would probably get the impression that the 1914 prophecy was his only concern and that, if it failed, it would be a showstopper as far as the Bible Students were concerned. That apparently wasn't the case, because in the WT of 10 January 1907, he wrote:

"Let us suppose a case far from our expectations, suppose that AD 1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence that the 'very elect' had not all been 'changed' and without the restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant. (Romans 11: 12, 15) What then? Would that not prove our chronology wrong? Yes, surely! And would that not prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it would! It would work irreparable wreck to the parallel dispensations and Israel's double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and the prophecy of the 2,300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called 'Gentile Times', and to the 1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days... none of these would be available any longer. What a blow that would be! One of the strings of our harp would be quite broken!

"However, dear friend, our harp would still have all the other strings in tune and that is what no other aggregation of God's people on earth could boast. We could still worship a God so great and grand that none other could compare with him. we should still see the grandeur of his salvation in Christ Jesus - 'a ransom for all' "

I would venture to say the 1914 prophecy didn't appear to be so crucial to CT Russell as it is to the JWs today...so crucial in fact that the WT tweaks its history...

40

Did reading Jwfacts help you? Please take a moment to say thanks..

by The Quiet One in

it seems as though so many of the stories of people who are now mentally free that i read on here involved reading jwfacts.com at some point along the way.. he basically saved my sanity (questionable, i know!

), and was never as sensational and garish as other sites which immediately scared me away.

why not take a minute out of your day to say thanks for any difference that jwfacts made to your life, and tell us what it was that helped you?...

krejames

Yes definitely JW Facts. Like others I had come across apostate sites in the past and so many of the claims seemed to be hearsay (usually personal bad experiences with elders etc) and unverifiable. I just dismissed most of that as being people with a sour grapes and axes to grind because my experiences with JWs as r&f and elders have been positive. To be frank, apostates scared me off as I just couldn't relate to them and they seemed to fit exactly with my expectations of them as created by the WTs!

When I came across JWFacts, it was something different though - it was stuff I could check for myself, with source material (often from the WTS own publications) and rather than ranting against the society, it was sensible, non-confrontational and without sensationalism. I still take everything with a pinch of salt unless it has references or source material I can check out for myself so JWFacts seems to be the place where I find reliable information. I would definitely direct people there if I was trying to wake them up.

27

Why does my family still interact with me?

by stillstuckcruz in

jw
friends

here was my story posted originally about 2 years ago.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/205854/1/as-a-witness-what-view-of-the-world-did-you-have-heres-my-story.

and my extended story on jwrecovery:.

krejames

Just because someone is inactive does not mean they will be shunned tho they will likely not get invited socially so much. Just a further to reply to Roberta - I'm inactive and gay (still fading tho - I go to the occasional meeting). The elders, my family and some in my cong know - I have had five judicial committees but never D/fd. Everyone still interacts with me. Some more than others obviously there will always be a few hardcore in every cong. As has been said not all JWs are monsters. Any angst I feel is towards the GB not the rank and file. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the elders in my cong either. not wishing to hijack the thread - just to point out that the OP is very believable as far as I'm concerned. Many JWs are not as hardcore or judgemental as they used to be in the old days. Having said that - if they knew I had a boyfriend it would be different story...lol

21

Question about talking to JW

by darklight in

jw
friends

i was raised atheist and never believed in any religion.

i've been studying the watchtower religion with a younger jw couple for some months now.. my main motivation was the fact i knew nothing about christianity, they knocked on my door and offered their "bible" study... so why not learn something, i thought.. .

and yeah, this is one crazy cult.... .

krejames

Welcome Darklight

Why not say something like you read in their literature somewhere that there have been more earthquakes since 1914 than in all of history before that. Then say that you decided to check this out on the US Geographical Society website and it says that this isn't true (you can show them the webpage where it says the average has been pretty much the same every year on record). They might then frantically check the Reasoning Book p236. (That, from JW Facts, was a big "seed" for me).

There are plenty of other subtle seeds you can plant. For example they will believe that JWs spoke out against Hitler's tyranny from the word go unlike those evil catholics . You won't need to look too hard through the literature for this kind of claim. You could say that on checking this out you found on wikipedia references to the 1934 Yearbook "declaration of Facts" and Rutherford's letter to Hitler (look up rutherford/hitler). You could say you're confused and wonder what their take on it is. You could say that it doesn't appear to be very politically neutral (references to US and UK as evil wild beast etc, while in support of Germany) (this was another biggie that got me thinking).

Whatever they answer don't react as if you don't believe them, just remain puzzled and say "I'm sure there must be some explanation". Believe me they will go back to others and ask about this because they won't know what to say.

Obviously this depends on whether you can be bothered hehe

A People for his name....no mention of The Rutherford/Hitler issue?

by krejames in

at last received tony wills' "a people for his name" and have just read the chapter on ww2.

completely dumbfounded as to how the author could have missed out such an important issue as the declaration of facts and rutherford's letter to hitler?!

very disappointed.

krejames

At last received Tony Wills' "A People For His Name" and have just read the chapter on WW2. Completely dumbfounded as to how the author could have missed out such an important issue as the Declaration of Facts and Rutherford's letter to hitler?! Very disappointed. Still looking forward to reading the rest of the book tho...

17

Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same in

so the want-to-be-jw wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the wt spouts.

it is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here i suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... the phrase i hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when i point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then i ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but i truely believe they are god's chosen organisation", but i cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... arrgghhh.

she went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified.

krejames

I agree with the subtle appoach.

Also advice to everyone: Blood policy is probably not the strongest argument these days. There are many non JWs and ex-JWs would refuse blood. The US army has been pioneering non blood surgery for the battlefield and there are numerous hospitals now that specialise in non-blood surgery. Here in the UK we get news stories every 3 or 4 years showing the results of studies that have found JWs to recovery quicker after heart surgery, cancer surgery etc. Yes the JW will be ready for your argument and will have plenty of secular evidence to back up and "prove" the witnesses were right all along.

If you must talkk about blood its probably better to concentrate in the flip flops over blood fractions etc rather than the "JWs would rather die than have a life saving blood transfusion" argument.

53

Hello

by newdawnfades in

jw
friends

i am a long time lurker who has finally decided to post.

i am still in along with my wife, kids and extended family.

i am in my 40s and was raised in the org.

krejames

Welcome!

66

If 1914 is wrong then how is it that it was such a landmark year?

by awakening in

jw
friends

this is the question that came up in my mind.

now dont get me wrong i know the dates from 607 - 1914 are rubbish, but how would you explain to a witness when they will automatically say, look at the momentus year 1914 was.

that is evidence enough that 607 is correct!.

krejames

Before 1914 they thought the Napoleonic Wars signified the start of the end times. Even charles taze believed this (just reading "A People For His Name", which states this. Interesting stuff.)

(EDIT - "They": various religious figures, not JWs obviously)

13

Believing that god arranges for £50 to be put through your letterbox while he ignores the cries of abused children

by jambon1 in

we've all heard these experiences.. in fact, jehovah's witnesses are obsessed with them.

the pioneer who needed 80 to fix their car & somehow (without having told anyone .

now, if you believe that these sort of experiences are true, you are basically saying that god is actively arranging help for someone who is in need.

krejames

Good thread. Thanks.

Also PUnkOfNice that's a powerful image/photo message. I'll use that.