Salud

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Posts by Salud

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  307

  Super Bowl Predictions

  by WildTurkey in

  1. social
  2. physical

  .

  im a huge cowboy fan but i dont think they will make it to the super bowl, damn sure would love to be wrong.

  ok here is who i think as of right now pittsburgh stealers and san francisco 49ers and god i hate them both, well thats my pick how about you?

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  Salud

  HOW ABOUT THEM...

  BUCKS!!!!

  Green Bay and Farve would still have to get through Tampa Bay, Sapp, Rice and Co. I would'nt be making any Super Bowl plans yet.
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  51

  The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

  by jst2laws in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the problem.

  many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

  a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

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  Salud

  Jst2laws,

  Greetings to you and your family also...

  if the mind set of the elders was to turn allegations of crime over the investigative agencies of the govt., the internal religious policy of 'two witnesses' would not have been a factor.

  I agree, but the key word here is 'if'. Because they do not turn it over to the proper authorities the two-witness rule has been and will continue to be a factor.

  The problem is also that these elders have been 'trained' to believe that this two-witness policy applies in cases of child abuse, and most elders totally believe it. The elders, are not concerned first with legal issue as they are with the scriptural procedure that has been handed down to them. So who is responsible for this training?

  Just my thought.

  Salud
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  51

  The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

  by jst2laws in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the problem.

  many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

  a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

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  Salud

  Js2laws,

  They are only concerned with their reputation of 'holiness' and the cost of failed litigation.

  I am open to adjusting my perspective but his is how I see it at this point. The 'two witness' rule is low on the list of bad motives and policies.

  What about all the victims that were turned away because of the two-witness rule? Sure they were worried about litigation, but nonetheless, the scriptural principle, two-witness rule, had to be applied. As a former elder, I am personally familiar that this was the instruction from headquarters.

  No doubt this instruction damaged and hurt many victims as well as broke the law.
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  8

  First Halloween

  by freedom96 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let me say first of all, i have never been a big fan of halloween.

  the witches, monsters, etc, never appealed to me.. last night, my family and i were invited to a friend of a friends house for food and trick or treating.

  my first inclination, was to find a way to weasel out of it.

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  Salud

  Thanks for sharing your First Halloween with us Freedom. Glad you had such a nice time with your friends and family. I share many of your feelings about the evening, and also the sadness too.

  My kids are now living on their own 3,000 miles away from Frank & I. When I called them, I was so happy to hear that my son (23 years old now) was taking a neighbors boy out to trick or treat, and my daughter (now 20) was going over to a friends house to rent scarry movies, order pizza, and pass out candy to the kids.

  What was I going to do? Earlier this week, I went to the pumpkin patch and had a wave of enormous sadness come over me, as I couldn't even imagine carving a pumpkin without my kids sharing it with me. So I bought a small pumpkin, but couldn't bring myself to carve it. I decided to buy candy, hoping this would be easier than the pumpkin thing.

  As the kids rang the door bell, it turned out to be a most enjoyable evening. They were of all ages, having so much fun. And all so darling in their costumes too. Even the teenagers on their scooters and skateboards, making the most of their time, as they grabbed handfuls of candy and zoomed off!! I remembered doing the same thing. Only I was on foot.

  I thought back to the time when I was a kid, how I always looked forward to Halloween. I thought of my own kids and all of the things we never got to share. Bitter sweet it was, but knowing we now have the rest of our lives to do as we choose, and to know were not hated by God, or evil persons, is such a great relief. I think I enjoyed it even more last night, than as a kid, because of where I have been.

  My daughter had commented to me during the day "don't worry mom, I never felt like I was missing out, because I didn't know anything else, and I believed in the same thing you did". This brought me alot of comfort as I reflected on the past. Freedom, I'm sure your son, and lots of other children raised in the WT too, might say something similiar, though my son approaches it totally different!

  Hopefully with time, as we have many more enjoyable experiences, our sadness will lessen.

  Next year, I'll be carving a pumpkin with the Watchtower logo on it, and delivering it to the local Kingdumb Hall....thanks to Princess!! That will be a totally different experience and will help me get over the pumpkin thing!!!! I think I will start planning my costume also. Thanks Cicatrix and Swan...you right.

  I am now looking forward to many more Happy Halloweens.......

  Saluds Wife
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  23

  Jehovah's Witness Ghost Story

  by kenpodragon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was about twelve and a young "brother" invited me to stay the night at his house.

  my mom wanted me to be make friends with witness families, so getting permission was not that hard to do.

  his mom and dad picked me up at around five and we went back to his house.

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  Salud

  When one of my witness friends asked me about the holidays I told him that Halloween was my favorite

  Following up on Kenpo's post re. Ghost and Spirits, ghost are ones who have had an abrupt or unnatural death of some kind and have not moved on, perhaps they are confused or feel they have some sort of work to yet finish. That might explain the little boy in Kenpo's experience.

  Re. the point of paranormal activity decreasing with cell phone towers and such this might also explain the skeptic's response to why in more so called advanced society's you do not hear of paranormal as much.

  Just my thoughts also,

  Salud
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  39

  To Farkel... My Dad Died Today

  by FreePeace in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey doug, .

  as you may have known, my dad is not doing too well.

  he is not expected to live much longer.

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  Salud

  Dear Doug and Tracy,

  Frank & I are so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. We have both experienced this pain, and our thoughts and prayers are with you now.

  You are so right Doug, he is in a better place. You feel a peace and strength that no JW can ever feel, as they only have the comfort of a lie, which turns out to be of no comfort at all. One day you will be reunited again with him, and then he will let you know that he understood everything you said......we are all looking forward to that day!

  Hugs, Love and Prayers,

  Karen & Frank
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  41

  My heart is very sad

  by kenpodragon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know some of the people that come to this board, used to go to the beyondjw.com boards.

  if you have then you might have known dana, aka wingedgoddess01.

  if you did, i am sad to report that yesterday her 14 month daughter died.

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  Salud

  My wife and I send our deepest sympathy's and our heart goes out to Dana and her family. No words can bring any comfort at this time... just time....
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  31

  It has been a year!!

  by Joyzabel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  well, can you believe it, it has been a year since i timidly joined this forum!

  (yes me, i was very timid at first!

  i came looking to see if anyone else had the same experience as me in finding out that the wtbts is just another manmade organization with dangling carrots and big sticks.

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  Salud

  Joy,

  It has been a pleasure meeting you and your family. We have enjoyed the times together and look forward to many more of them. Happy Anniversary.

  You know it was meant to be.... there are no coincidences.
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  181

  Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wish them peace.

  at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

  for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

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  Salud

  Personally I do not understand why Amazing had to bring this out again. I was under the impression that it was an issue that was behind us. Nonetheless, I understand where Bill's comments are coming from, and I think a rebuttal was appropriate. Don't get me wrong. I will be the first one to admit that reading Ray Franz's books got me on the road out of the organization and for that I am thankful and grateful, and to this day would recommend reading these books to anyone interested in leaving, which I just did this past week.

  What I don't understand and find hard to believe is Ray stating that in his 40 years of Witness membership, not any cases of child molestation ever came to his attention. I must admit that when I served in Bethel in the early 80's I was aware of homosexual/pedophilia situations there, ones that happened way before I arrived at Bethel. In fact, one of the suicides there at Bethel was because the brother was found out to be a homosexual and could not live with the shame, hence felt this was his only way out.

  I also find disheartening Ray's slam on Silentlambs organization when he say's after admitting that child molestation is most despicable he goes on to say "Nonetheless, to focus on certain specific policies as if these are the root of the problem (two witness rule policy) is, I believe, to think superficially."

  Now I ask you, is it not the two witness rule policy that started this whole mess? Why would Ray say that? How would that be thinking superficially?

  Did Dinah need two witnesses to claim that her half-brother raped her? The two witness rule was not required when it came to rape, molestation, and murder. In fact when this policy is used, it is to keep one from saying something hurtful to an older man or being falsely accused of stealing his property. Yet the Watchtower, through rule making of the Society's writers, continues to advocate such a policy at the expense of people's lives and well being.

  Ray goes on to say that "Jesus did not seek to achieve their relief by endeavoring to create problems for the Pharisees movement with the Roman officials, so that the government would take punitive actions toward them. Rather, Christ Jesus spoke truths which enabled people in his time to free themselves from domination by the thinking and traditional teachings of the Pharisees".

  What!?! We are not talking about doctrine here, but about a man-made policy that hurts people. What are the Truths spoken here? What is Ray thinking??

  There are many more points where Ray's letter fails to see the problem with this policy, but suffice to say I will leave it at that.

  I could see why Bill felt a need for a rebuttal. I don't always agree with Bill. But I feel Bill was justified in answering to the comments from Ray. How could he not.

  In conclusion I feel the need to move on and not forget the big picture here, that this is for abused victims, children or adults. I don't follow a man but I do believe in a cause.

  Salud
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  82

  JanG - You're a Legend!

  by Beck_Melbourne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this email only seconds ago and i'm just passing it on to those that knew jan, i have no other details:.

  jan groenveld will no longer be a part of these forums.

  she passed away in her sleep last night.

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  Salud

  Do not stand at my grave and weep, I am not there, I do not sleep. I am a thousand winds that blow, I am diamond glints on snow. I am the sunlight on ripened grain, I am the gentle autumn's rain. When you awaken in the morning's hush, I am the swift uplifting rush of quiet birds in circled flight, I am the soft stars that shine at night. Do not stand at my grave and cry, I am not there, I did not die.

  Author Unknown