Posts by Phoebe

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

This thread is making me upset because I've been there. I know what it's like to be dragged from a bed and sexually abused at 5 years old. I know the feelings that made a 10 year old me want to commit suicide.

Rattigan350

I don't think many women or men for that matter would relate embarrassing details of abuse for the sole purpose of running a man/woman's life and reputation. To even consider making up such a thing would take a very sick and vindictive individual indeed. Have you any idea how awful it is to have to tell someone what happened...in detail? Who would want to make that up? But sadly,very rarely it does happen.

But who are we going to protect? Say, we won't believe you because you might be telling lies? and we wouldn't want to ruin that elder's reputation, would we? You know, just in case you are lying...

Did you see that documentary about Romy Maple. When she went to an elder along with another girl to report their abuse and thought as there was two of them they would be believed. The elder slammed his fist on the table and called them liars.

When that happens, you feel, well, who IS going to believe me? Even if you could you probably wouldn't call the police because you've already been called a liar so you think the police won't believe you, either.

So you suffer in silence.

The two witness rule protects the abuser. End of.

Morpheus

It's not irrelevant. It should be. But it's not.

Going off this now, it's just too upsetting. :(

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

Phoebe

Morpheus.

You say, just report to the police. Yes, everyone should, but often it's not that easy.

You are often bullied into NOT reporting it to the police. Sometimes people are threatened. Read all the child abuse accounts or listen or them on YouTube. How many didn't report it because they were put under extreme pressure not to? How many were threatened by the elders?

In my case, the crime happened in a different country to where I now live and it happened many years ago so I couldn't go to the police. I've battled with the damage it did to me for decades and when finally I spoke out I was treated so badly by the elders in my congregation...it was shocking how badly I was treated.

Clearly they contacted the branch and being as my abuser is an elder and former temp C.O. with lots of friends in the right places I was told by the elders 'Your word against his. Nothing we can do.' Two witness rule.

They didn't want to know. I was ignored. After summoning up the courage to finally speak out I was brushed aside as if I was a waste of their time. It was like being abused all over again.

Yes, you are right. Report to the people. Definitely. But spare some compassion for people who just are not able to do that.

That's why they need to change it. That's why people protest.

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

Phoebe

Why?

Because people like me cannot get justice within the organization as a result of that stupid rule.

Because it's devastating when an elder says to you 'it's your word against his, nothing we can do.'

Because no one will listen to you.

That's one of the reasons I left but many can't. That's why we want change.

27

My story

by Leeny in

i came across this website when i was looking for some emotional/mental support lately as i was summoned by elders to explain someone’s report on me saying “i’m promoting homosexuality”.

i’m inactive, not attending meetings or associating with jw outside of my biological family for almost 2 years now.. yes i am gay (you can judge away) and yes it is in a direct contrast to the scriptures, no arguement about it.. i was brought up in a jw family.

my dad is a typical zealot, he literally talks or thinks about the bible 24/7.

Phoebe

Hi Leeny,

hello and welcome. I've found this forum a safe haven so never feel you are alone. There is a wealth of experience here and you will get so much support from everyone.

You have woken up early that is wonderful. Go live your life and be happy!

XXX

16

Holiday Plans

by Kathy1978 in

anyone doing anything interesting/fun for the holidays this year?

we got some presents for our kids and a tree.

other than that, just chillin.

Phoebe

I have an online store which is crazy busy atm so I plan to sleep a lot over Xmas! Remember when as kids we had to go out in field service on Xmas day?? I remember householders feeling sorry for us kids and they’d give us mince pies and sweets and often money too!

21

giving to jehovah part this week

by road to nowhere in

i love it!!

the brother started by saying we know our donations don't go to the local brothers -- you don't see us wearing gold rings, fancy jewelry (watches?

) wonder if he notices who does?.

Phoebe

Over my 60+ years in the WT I've occasionally seen kind brothers and sisters help others out - but it's been rare. My husband I have helped brothers and sisters when we were able. But in my experience never, ever have the WT organisation stepped up and it's not often a witness will help, either. They will help their 'friends' in the congregation.

When my husband was sick and couldn't work and we had literally nothing coming in, all I ever got from people in my congregation was 'I'll pray for you' and then to rub salt into the wound I was counselled by the COBE for not having enough money to attend the convention!

18

Am I shunned here?

by caves in

lately i been sifting though my many emotions after being here on this site.

i feel ive been all over the map just trying to come to grips with the information.

but through all this i feel i'm shunned here as of late due to my (all over the place =-ness).

Phoebe

Hi Caves,

I understand feeling 'lost' I am the same. I'm struggling to move on and I am envious of those that can seemingly leave it all behind them and move on happily.

It feels like we've been let out of our JW cage but the outside is unfamiliar and a bit scary.

We now have to deal with so many emotions, perhaps even grieving over a life wasted.

Just take your time and hang on in there. Everyone says it will get better and easier.

Xx

29

Hello!

by Kathy1978 in

i just wanted to give a brief intro.

i was born into jw world and left it in 2015 along with my husband and 2 little children.

looking forward to reading the posts and interaction with you.

Phoebe

Welcome Kathy! Look forward to hearing from you.

Xx

24

Hello...

by Incognigo Montoya in

jw
friends

well, i've been lurking for a bit.

first out of cautious curiosity, then, though feeling a bit more comfortable to post, got caught in the confirmation email anomaly, and left unable to post or participate.

so i remained lurking, reading and researching.

Phoebe

Hello and welcome!

I too lurked in the shadows for awhile until I felt brave enough to post something. I have had amazing support from this forum and made many new friends and you will too. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Xx

22

Maybe more will follow.

by Jayk in

in a nutshell.

a group of about 6 women who have been friends practically their whole lives that i personally know are leaving there jw husbands.

my understanding is they're starting to see the hypocrisy of the .org.

Phoebe

I knew a sister who left her abusive elder husband. He was awful to her for decades and she developed many health issues. Finally, when the kids grew up she left him and moved congregations. The elders accepted she’d left and we’re okay with it but she had massive restrictions. She couldn’t pioneer, volunteer at conventions, answer up in meetings etc but she could go out in ministry. Once she left him her health problems cleared up and was quite happy in her new life but wasn’t it unfair to punish her for putting up with years of abuse?