tor1500

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Posts by tor1500

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  23

  History of DF - Question

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from reading crisis of a conscience and members here, i have gathered that df was originally a means to cleanse bethel and stop apostates from spreading their own thinking inside the organization.

  .

  when did it also branch over to sinners that were struggling with an issue that relapsed on multiple occasions?

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  tor1500

  Hi,

  Here you go....

  This is from the revised NWT: John 8...the scriptures start @ v 12.

  8 12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world.+ Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light+ of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to him: “You bear witness about yourself; your witness is not true.” 14 In answer Jesus said to them: “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my witness is true, because I know where I came from and where I am going.+ But you do not know where I came from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh;*+ I do not judge any man at all. 16 And yet even if I do judge, my judgment is truthful, because I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me.+ 17 Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’+ 18 I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”+ 19 Then they said to him: “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered: “You know neither me nor my Father.+ If you did know me, you would know my Father also.”+ 20 He spoke these words in the treasury+ as he was teaching in the temple. But no one seized him, for his hour had not yet come.+

  Now this is from the Older NWT James 8: 1-12: But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At daybreak, however, he again presented himself at the temple, and all the people began coming to him, and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 Now the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught at adultery, and, after standing her in their midst, 4 they said to him: “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of committing adultery. 5 In the Law Moses prescribed for us to stone such sort of women. What, really, do you say?” 6 Of course, they were saying this to put him to the test, in order to have something with which to accuse him. But Jesus bent down and began to write with his finger in the ground. 7 When they persisted in asking him, he straightened up and said to them: “Let the one of YOU that is sinless be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And bending over again he kept on writing in the ground. 9 But those who heard this began going out, one by one, starting with the older men, and he was left alone, and the woman that was in their midst. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her: “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said: “No one, sir.” Jesus said: “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way; from now on practice sin no more

  Tor
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  23

  History of DF - Question

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from reading crisis of a conscience and members here, i have gathered that df was originally a means to cleanse bethel and stop apostates from spreading their own thinking inside the organization.

  .

  when did it also branch over to sinners that were struggling with an issue that relapsed on multiple occasions?

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  tor1500

  Hi,

  I don't know the history of DF'ing, but what I do know is that it doesn't cleanse anything, it's a form of control. Witnesses use DF'ing for control & other religions use Hell as control. No matter how you slice it, man is always holding something over mankinds head to control & put fear in them.

  How is it that JW's don't think the judging someone isn't taking God's job. God sees the whole picture. What right has man to judge another man ? NONE....

  I noticed this scripture was removed from the NWT: where they brought a woman to Jesus & said she committed adultery & the crowd wanted her to get her come upp'ins....Jesus leaned down, drew a line in the sand/dirt & said, whoever has not sinned cross this line....Nobody stepped over also, they all left without a word...or as we say now..."Crickets". This scripture is in the old NWT. Why ? Because if you get called in, a person could use that as a defense....I know I would...I would make a copy for all of the brothers at my JC meeting...when they say, do you have anything to say...I'd give out a copy of that scripture to all of them with silence....& leave...or maybe break the silence & say....Oh by the way, this scripture was in our NWT before they revised it...No doubt they would go look it up...& Viola, there it is in black & white....even if I did get DF'd. I'd leave them with something to think about....for a long time...

  The more the org. goes mainstream & people hear about DF'ing via internet, no matter how much the org. tries to say how loving DF'ing is....not too many folks are going to sign up for that...& the thing that slows down bible studies & interested person....AIN'T NOBODY STANDING IN LINE TO BE CELEBATE... Most folks still want to have sex, so they feel why join a religion that will shun you because of a natural feeling so they already know the deal...so why sign up, they know what will happen...what's the point.

  Tor
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  30

  not all JW's are asleep

  by Damascus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.

  not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.

  i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.

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  tor1500

  Hi Damascus,

  I agree with you 100%...I'm active but I don't swallow all the stuff they say....When I go out in field service, I too rarely have the literature....I use the bible. Most of the time I say to the friends...I had the lit, but some of the friends needed them so I gave them up.

  What I'm realizing most of them in their need praise. Whatever they didn't get at home, it seems the org. is supplying it for them. Many of them feel they don't have any worth & the only worth they have is in the org. I like you feel pity for them. Most of them need a pat on the back. If they put in one extra hour for field service, they must mention it. If they come home later, they'll call you & say, I just got home from service. I know the CO & his wife, I know this person is one of the anointed & so on. Most of them can't even stay home, their thoughts drive them into the streets (Field service, carts, hopeless return visits).

  Most of the friends are nice but have issues. Well, I guess you can say that about most of the world. It's sad, just look around your hall(s) & see the sad faces...look at the young generation...their eyes are dull.

  I go, listen, take what I need & spit out the rest...The bible is telling us to love one another....not just folks who look like you, vote like you, worship like you.

  I, like you, believe in God & Jesus...Man has no idea what the bible is saying...it's man's interpretation to fit how they want you to think....The bible in the wrong hands can be dangerous.

  I keep asking God, if I'm not supposed to be here...get me out but don't make it hurt (DA'd or DF'd).

  Tor
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  Is this an inspired Error....Zealous or Jealous ?????

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this weeks imitate their faith...so did anyone catch (if you are still attending the mid week meetings) para.

  18, where elijah says,1 kings v.10 "i have been absolutely jealous for jehovah the god of armies; for the sons of israel have left your covenant....)?

  the grey bible says, " i have been absolutely zealous".

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  tor1500

  Hi All,

  This weeks Imitate Their Faith...So did anyone catch (if you are still attending the mid week meetings) para. 18, where Elijah says,1 Kings V.10 "I have been absolutely jealous for Jehovah the God of Armies; for the sons of Israel have left your covenant....)? The grey bible says, " I have been absolutely Zealous". The older NWT says, " I have been absolutely Jealous..." So which is it...I looked up both words...but they mean different things...Zealous means (overly)enthusiasm, & Jealous means a person who is overly possessive or envious of others (intolerant of others). He or she generally covets the possession of others....

  So can you interchange these 2 words ?

  Tor
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  26

  Some gems from the "Anointed" WT study

  by NotBlind in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know this has been discussed before, but i think some of these wacky (but thought-provoking) comments deserve their own thread.. paragraph 6 says: modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope.

  they do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.

  somebody needs to send this memo to the gb.

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  tor1500

  Hi,

  We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise.

  Always thought about this...how does a spouse or family member feel about never seeing them again....does the anointed prepare them, like most Fathers/Mothers that prepare their families for their death...tell them where the bank book is, insurance, & that they will be well taken care of. I'm thinking how painful this must be, others that are apart of the great crowd, looking forward to living 4 ever with their families. I'm also thinking maybe the Hubby doesn't want to be with his wife in the new system, so he say's he's anointed. That's a cheap divorce.

  Tor
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  26

  They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've never met a group that turns on it's members like the jw's.

  sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness.

  we all have known it's true, but now you have the wt, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed.

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  tor1500

  Hi All,

  Need some clarification. The 144,000 are chosen in the past & there is a remnant now ? Am I correct. Could someone explain these scriptures? Matt. 19:28;Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. & Luke 22:30:so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. So, I'm not understanding, will the 144,000 be chosen by Jesus's & the disciples will help Jesus to pick the 144,000. Luke says, they will sit on the thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Anyone can explain this to me...I think I know but I'm just trying to make sure. From these 2 scriptures, The 144,000 have not been judged or chosen as of yet....Thanks

  Tor
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  19

  The Truth is not an ORG.....It's inside of you

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the truth, the org is the truth...ummm...let's think about that...i was thinking that the bible is the truth & what it does is that it reveals the truth about you...the more you read the bible the more you may see yourself & your actions.

  you may be a person who judges people, the bible will show you what's wrong with that...viola, another truth revealed about you.

  you may be a prideful person, you read a story in the bible about that...again, it's another truth revealed about you.

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  tor1500

  Hi Xanthippe,

  I read your link...amazing...My mother said, there is truly nothing new under the sun & she is correct. It was a very very interesting link...thanks...I don't mind when someone tells me that I need to do more research. I'm not too easily offended. We learn something new everyday until the day we die. We must admit we don't know all & that everything in life isn't explained....

  I no longer look for reality, I'm close to 65 so I've been around the block & religion is just what it is...In the south churches is a social setting for socializing & worshipping. When you live in the south, if you're not going to a church or to a church function then you really haven't much to do. By the way I don't live in the south. Religion or should I say the folks in religion try to dictate what you should do.

  What I'm thinking that if church/JW's are so bad, just think how bad they would be if they didn't go...Yikes.

  The Truth is inside of me....I know that...What my original topic was that the truth is not in the org, church, etc but inside of you to find...I didn't mean that religion was where you can find it....for some it exposes who they really are. There are some good examples in the NT of how humans should treat one another or how our attitudes are..I always love the account where A man is forgiven for his debts, yet he doesn't forgive someone who owes him...I think we can all identify with that story...Haven't at one time or another been forgiven, but won't forgive someone in return? Haven't we all seen someone sick or hurt and know we should help (Good Samaritan)....It's about morals...I know the bible is not the only place to go.

  I'm glad you sent me the link, more for me to know & they don't....

  Because of my age, I'm finally comfortable with myself, I'm not here anymore to please man or care what they think. I think that's why in my congregation, they don't really bother me. I'm my own person, but this web site keeps me sane until I have the courage to leave...

  Tor
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  13

  Jehovah`s Witnesses an Old Testament Religion

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jehovah`s witnesses claim to be a christian religion , however looking at their history , publications ,such as the watchtower and awake mags., their conventions ,international ,regional ,local ,etc.their books pamphlets ,brochures ,etc.etc.

  you are hard pressed to find references to the new testament and references to jesus and his ministry .. they seem to be more focused on the old testament , and the god of the old testament.jehovah.

  even in their dramas at conventions , international and local events they are pre-occupied with old testament accounts and experiences , and not christian experiences , examples or ,lives to emulate .. they claim to be a christian religion and very seldom do they highlight the name of jesus , or his teachings , they are fixed on the old testament name of jehovah , and what he did in the old testament.

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  tor1500

  Hi All,

  The general feeling is the old testament GOD is a bloodthirsty God of war, an avenging God.

  The general feeling in the New testament of Jesus is a God of love and forgiveness

  You know why? See these two points I've copied & pasted....This is who they are...they are bloodthirsty, and vengeful. They love to DF, to shun, all the ways in the OT, appeals to them...The NT is about love & they have to learn that, because it's not in them...I've spoken to a few folks that are not JW's & they say, They love the fact that they DF folks when they do something wrong & want to keep the congregation clean....BS. If you want to keep the congregation clean, you'd have to clean out the entire org. At the core of most witnesses is a mean spirit. Anyone who wants God to destroy folks because they won't listen to them, that tells you who they really are.

  Many of them can't identify with love....they never came from a loving home, so that's why they really can't get the NT. They talk about love, but they don't have it. From what I observed, parents are good JW's, but not loving parents...they are about rules & regulation (again, that's why they love the OT). They make sure they feed them, clothe them, roof over their head but much rather their kids be servants of Jehovah then them actually nurturing them...I watch them at the hall. They stare at their kids, make sure they sit straight, don't fall asleep, & paying attention....& it looks could kill their kids would be dead. Oh yes, make sure they raise their hands to comment.

  They don't a clue how to imitate Jesus....even though their are no more sacrifices, if God brought them back, the JW's would be the first to do it...they love to sacrifice when it is seen. They do nothing unless it's seen or counted.

  They feel that they have to bring back the name of God...that's their main objective...good works, faith, all on the back burner.

  It's funny someone brought up this topic, a sister that just got baptized a year ago, brought up this same point to me...she said, I think they dwell in the OT too much...Life is beautiful, nothing like the OT...she was too new for me to say anything..I just told her to pay attention...& remember, you don't serve man...

  Witnesses are afraid to imitate Jesus, means they would have to come out of their comfort zone of a mean spirit, which is the core of most of them.

  I know about it first hand...believe me...I see it all. I could go on...but won't.

  Tor
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  19

  The Truth is not an ORG.....It's inside of you

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the truth, the org is the truth...ummm...let's think about that...i was thinking that the bible is the truth & what it does is that it reveals the truth about you...the more you read the bible the more you may see yourself & your actions.

  you may be a person who judges people, the bible will show you what's wrong with that...viola, another truth revealed about you.

  you may be a prideful person, you read a story in the bible about that...again, it's another truth revealed about you.

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  tor1500

  Hi Xanthippe,

  I agree with you 100%...I did look up what you said..sorry for not getting back to you about that...My apologies...You are right...As they say nothing is new under the sun....I think by nature we are kind of self-centered....I'm an only child, I had to learn to share & learn that there are other people in the world besides me...because at home....I was the center of the world...Many of our behavior is from our environment or how we are raised. For example, you don't have to teach a child to lie, but how not to lie. If they see their parents or whomever act a certain way, not all but most of the time, the child(s) mimic's that....I've met many users in my life, the longer I know them the longer I notice so where their parents. Once I met a sister that told me she didn't want to be like her MOM, folks always took advantage of her. So this sister has a bit of an edge to her, it's a protection. Many people put up walls of protection from others. So they don't know how to be treated nor how to treat others with or without kindness.

  If you were not treated well at home or were surrounded by nice people, you don't have any experience with knowing how to love or be nice or treat others well. Yes, you can decide to be a nice person, but first you must recognize that you are not & would like to be. Many go to church to learn....I still believe churches/halls or any place of worship is a rehab for the mean folks...because I tell you I've met the most meanest folks in places of worship, so I get what you mean about religion...Someone on this site once said, some Christians are more religious than spiritual.

  Ever run across folks that say, they don't like people all that much...My reply is....So what are you? Don't you know I hear crickets...

  I understand what you mean by living by someone else's rules & that's why I come to this site, to make sure I'm still sane....I like the friends a lot....but I know I don't fit in, so we shall see.

  All in all I think or should I say hope we are on the same page. I'm not a debater, I like to look at all sides & I will keep what you say in mind....That Kindness is not a new thing....& religion didn't event it...

  You know why sometimes I have my doubts about the Bible...it's when they say so & so wrote this book & then at the end of the book, the character dies but the story goes on...how can one write about their death...I think the folks they say wrote different books in bible...I don't believe they know. Someone also said, how come Jesus never wrote...I say...UMMMMM..

  I will do a little more research on folks trying to work out to be a good person since 550 BC...Food for thought.

  Thanks for replying....

  Tor
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  3

  Today's Text Is A Joke - Be Humble And Consider Others Superior???!

  by Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thursday, march 17. with humility consider others superior to you.—phil.

  2:3.. we appreciate it when people are straightforward yet tactful when approaching us.

  how can we extend the same courtesy to those we meet in our ministry?

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  tor1500

  Hi Divergent,

  9. Which is more superior to JW's - "saving the lives" of the householders / getting their hours in / status? If report slips were done away with, pioneer ranks abolished, & preaching is not made compulsory for all JW's, would most JW's still be going out in service?

  I like them all & they are all true.... but # 9 is what I truly believe..Take away all those titles, most of them couldn't stay...They would do nothing for Jah unless they could count it....

  When they go door to door they feel superior, yet they always have this default button to make them look humble..NOT...they are the furthest from being humble...they have all the answers. Basically they are a judgmental lot.

  # 4 Do JW's always listen patiently while the householder is talking or do they at times rudely interrupt the householder...Majority of witnesses are not good listeners at all only if you have a sob story...always have to have the last word...you can say, I know God's name is Jehovah, the witness will answer, yes but did you know.....No matter what you say, even if you agree...they have to have the last word...They are always in a hurry if you want to talk to them...ever been at the hall & you want to say Hi, to someone, they are busy looking to speak to someone has a title or just to talk to a brother....(single sisters, just to get their man-on).

  They have no respect for anyone that isn't a JW. Yet, they say, God is not partial, yet they are....only associate with their own, but say we preach to everyone...we don't get a chance to preach....that's why we have the new meeting books...we get a chance to show our skills on stage because we never get a chance to do our presentations at the door. It sharpens our skills for..............( I don't know because no one is home now a days, they are at Home Depot).

  Somehow I'm a JW, but don't fit in....not that I'm trying....I do what I do...I go out in the ministry, spend time with the friends, go to my meetings, do my lessons...& live my life...I think most of them see I'm confident, yet not overly, just me...no looking for any approval. I feel good about what I do....& If God is looking at me...Hope he is saying..."WELL DONE"....could care less what man says...he can't even direct his own steps.

  Tor